Why is Allies vs Axis always empty ???

[Bronk]

Originally posted by 1cajun
Last post on this.  What started as a thread asking why the arena is mostly empty has resulted in insults and name calling.  Exactly what happens on CH200 and why the arena is empty.  Those that engage in this are the ones that are happy with the low numbers.

Truly sad.

Damn,,,  guess you cant detune 200. That's a shame.

Bronk

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Bronk
Damn,,,  guess you cant detune 200. That's a shame.

Bronk

It's not only 200...

I used to fly a bit CT/AvA. Had much fun with alternate planesets, a nice change of pace from my usual MA forays.

I stopped because of all that big egos there. Either constant whining about real or percieved HO's, cherry-picks and such. Or lot's of chest-thumping and mutual assurances how all that MA dweebs do suck. But even worse, many times a new player who (maybe accidentally) strayed into the arena was not getting a friendly welcome but a lot of name calling for not following the "rules" of AvA - which were naturally unknown to him.

The last time I was there I was immediatly called a "Tard" on my own(!) countrychannel, because I dared to fly a Spitfire vs 5 LW planes.

Some of the AvA regulars seem to do everything to stop that arena from gaining more popularity. I guess they are afraid they wouldn't have that "Elite" feeling anymore...

[E25280]

Originally posted by Lusche
It's not only 200...

I used to fly a bit CT/AvA. Had much fun with alternate planesets, a nice change of pace from my usual MA forays.

I stopped because of all that big egos there. Either constant whining about real or percieved HO's, cherry-picks and such. Or lot's of chest-thumping and mutual assurances how all that MA dweebs do suck. But even worse, many times a new player who (maybe accidentally) strayed into the arena was not getting a friendly welcome but a lot of name calling for not following the "rules" of AvA - which were naturally unknown to him.

The last time I was there I was immediatly called a "Tard" on my own(!) countrychannel, because I dared to fly a Spitfire vs 5 LW planes.

Some of the AvA regulars seem to do everything to stop that arena from gaining more popularity. I guess they are afraid they wouldn't have that "Elite" feeling anymore...

Oh, that was just Storch and Truekill trying to follow the Skyrock model.  

Yes, there are a couple of well-known loudmouths that frequent the AvA.  I find it funny how that "drives people out" of the AvA but is considered just "banter" anywhere else.

It is also unfortunate that, once again, I see many people who do not fly the AvA continue to paint all who do with the same broad brush.

[Toad]

Page 5 of this thread.

Here's the test then:

In 25 words or less explain why the AvA is basically empty all the time.

Address the question, do not waste words slamming someone else's idea.

Just type the reason you personally believe it has such a small following.

Ready... set... GO!

[E25280]

Originally posted by Toad
Page 5 of this thread.

Here's the test then:

In 25 words or less explain why the AvA is basically empty all the time.

Address the question, do not waste words slamming someone else's idea.

Just type the reason you personally believe it has such a small following.

Ready... set... GO!

The AvA is touted as something different.

If someone tries it and finds MA behavior even one time, they get disappointed and leave, and do not return.

Then the B*tch about it in the BBs forever, which keeps others from even trying it out.

More than 25 words, but the basic truth IMO.

[soda72]

Originally posted by Toad
Page 5 of this thread.

Here's the test then:

In 25 words or less explain why the AvA is basically empty all the time.

Address the question, do not waste words slamming someone else's idea.

Just type the reason you personally believe it has such a small following.

Ready... set... GO!

How about one word:

Expectations

[iaqmya]

Hmm, interesting thread.  My system has been down a few days.

Looks like the AvA areana is a great place to "cherry pick"  as well as "boom and Zoom" a few unsuspecting people.

I don't ever recall hearing about any rules in a gun fight.  

The more people I can have on my side against the bad guys, the better I like it.  If I get the shot, (happens very rarely) great.  But then again, I'm usually just happy to survive and be thankfull for an assist.

Oh, and by the way, I have flown for a few years, here and WB.  I just never got good at it, but do so much enjoy shooting people down.  Especially if they are taking off from a capped field that has been de acked and no ground vehicles

Have a safe flight, and don't forget to buckle your parachute harness properly

[Dichotomy]

I prefer the AVA because of the gentlemens 'rules' about how to play in there.  If it's not your cup of tea there are other options available to you.  That said I can see how getting called a cherry picker etc can keep potential new blood out.  

I, personally, will never call someone out on 200.  Two reasons A) I'm not a good enough stick to start talking !@#$!@% to someone and if I was I'd just reup, find them, and spank them like a gitmo detainee B) I've said it before NOBODY  likes being called out in front of their peers.  

The only time I was doing something 'wrong' in the AVA I was politely pm'd the 'cultural preferences' and took them to heart.  

You'll find me in there flying planes I ABSOLUTELY HATE for side balance.  Why? Because the regulars have always been pleasant and helpful to me.  I'm saddened that JG54 and some of the other regs have had issues because I loved flying aside and against those guys.   Hopefully those issues can be resolved behind the scenes.

Look it's pretty simple.  Nobody can tell you how to fly in any arena but the generally accepted 'rules' in my mind are as follow:

1.  Don't HO.  

This is pretty important because if I'm flying and I see a bunch of regs on the opposing side and we're merging I'm already thinking about my next move.  BAM I'm dead because I thought I was merging with a vet.  Next time I'm on a merge I pull the trigger PM or on 200  'dicho what the hell man?'  oh sorry didn't know it was you.  Do you see where this causes problems.  This actually happened recently.  

2. 2 v 1 cool but that's the limit.  The other night I was chasing a con and saw 2 friendlies with alt come screaming in.  I pulled out and let them go and wound up in a turning roller coaster of a fight with B@tfink.  Yup I died but it was much more satisfying than clubbing a baby seal.

3. (this is mine) Don't be insulting but have a thick skin.  A little smack talk is amusing (and yes I think the Skyrock 'owns' is hysterical.  If you don't you have issues) but trying to humiliate someone or whine on 200 is simply stupid.  You have to take your hands OFF of your controls, THINK about what you are typing, and consciously hit enter.  If you wouldn't want it said to you in public don't say it IN public.  Geez I think I learned this in kindergarden.  

4. Don't vulch.  The AVA is pretty much about plane vs plane.  Let the guy get up and get ready to fight.  It's much more satisfying to kill an enemy who is on equal footing than clubbing baby seals.  At least it is to me.

5. By extension don't run for the ack.  If you come screaming through my field vulching my friendlies and I have to chase you to your ack I will consider you a dweeb and will cheerfully not clear your six if i see you on my side engaged with the borg collective.

Now these are the 'rules' I fly by in the AVA.  It is not my intention to tell anybody to follow them but I think they are good advice.

Gentlemen let's keep some perspective here.  This is a GAME that is SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.  Some nights are good nights, some are bad, and some just plain suck.  Learn to laugh at yourself a little.  I do all of the time and it keeps me grounded.  If I can laugh at myself I don't feel bad for laughing at you when you're being a retard or do soemething stupid.  

Of course that's just my opinion.

[trap2000]

Historical arenas are based on the concept of a much more realistic style of game play than you find in the “fantasy” mains. Realistic meaning arena settings, plane sets and terrains that as closely simulate a specific time period as practical. While it shares similar mission profiles with its’ main counterpart, it’s the environment in which these missions are flown the sets the two apart. This style of game play tends to attract the more serious type of player. Folks who have a much more thorough understanding of the history involved, the technical aspects of the aircraft and appreciation for the sacrifices that were made. All other things aside, this is what sets the historical style player apart from the rest. There is a somewhat “elitist” attitude that comes with this higher level of game play, but it’s of pride not arrogance. It’s something others can aspire to, not be afraid of. A code of conduct in arena play…..I don’t have a problem with that concept. I was taught from day one to avoid HO’s because they are poor tactical situations. No more than two friendlies on a single con at a time. Vulching, more on a case by case basis. If someone ups from a capped field they have made a major tactical error and will often have to pay for it. Of course all this goes out the door in events. These things add to the grit that makes event play as close to the real thing as it gets. But we’re not talking about events here. The AvA maybe the arena the regulars who fly there want, but it is not a true historical arena because the scope of game play is too limited and the action to monitored and controlled. If the goal was simply to create an arena very different from the main then it has succeeded. But it falls short of utilizing the full potential of the game and lacks the spontaneity and the feeling of riding the edge of controlled chaos that marks the true historical arena. The AvA is almost what I’ve been looking for.

[CAV]

I think more would play there, if game play was more along the lines of the old "Warbirds" ww2 arena. But with out the rollin plane set, keeping battles one week long, then move on to a new fight & maps.

Cavalry

[Shifty]

Originally posted by CAV
I think more would play there, if game play was more along the lines of the old "Warbirds" ww2 arena. But with out the rollin plane set, keeping battles one week long, then move on to a new fight & maps.

Cavalry

That's  how the AVA staff does it now. New planes and maps every week.

[Dichotomy]

and it's FUN!!!!

[trap2000]

I agree with Cav on this one. Before I left WB’s there had been talk about moving away from the RPS to a “battles” concept. The AvA is already using this format. WWII arena guys like myself would have killed to have the strat, terrains and game development that are available over here. Give players a reason to fly JU-88 and Stuka missions in a BOB scenario, to fly SBD’s and Val’s in the Pacific or escort heavies in the ETO. This is the spontaneity I referred to earlier. One mission I might fly a fighter sweep, the next mission I’m intercepting escorted bombers. Things are in constant motion and nobody knows exactly what will happen next. Great fights aren’t carefully scripted, but take on a life of their own without the safety of controlled circumstances. The culture of sportsmanship and chivalry are an important part of this arena, but they must be blended with the reality that things like HO’s, vulching and gang-banging will happen. Peoples tempers will flare. Accept it as part of the experience and don’t let it become an artificial limit on game play. This type of change would require a fundamental shift in the way the staff and vets envision the arena. Maybe this format isn’t what they want. I don’t know, but the reality is they hold the cards and if there’s no interest in pursuing this approach. I can’t do much about it.

[toonces3]

Posted by Dicho:

2 v 1 cool but that's the limit.

The AVA is pretty much about plane vs plane.


Posted by Trap2000:

WWII arena guys like myself would have killed to have the strat, terrains and game development that are available over here. Give players a reason to fly JU-88 and Stuka missions in a BOB scenario, to fly SBD’s and Val’s in the Pacific or escort heavies in the ETO. This is the spontaneity I referred to earlier. One mission I might fly a fighter sweep, the next mission I’m intercepting escorted bombers. Things are in constant motion and nobody knows exactly what will happen next. Great fights aren’t carefully scripted, but take on a life of their own without the safety of controlled circumstances.


I'm going to repeat what I've already said about 3 times now.  The AvA as Dicho describes it is a dueling arena.

The AvA as Trap describes it is a 'Main Arena' based around historical plane matchups.

In my OPINION based upon my 4 months of play, the AvA would be much better served encouraging Trap's vision of the AvA rather than Dicho's vision (which is, incidentally, how it is right now).  

Dicho says, "I prefer the AVA because of the gentlemens 'rules' about how to play in there. If it's not your cup of tea there are other options available to you."

My reply to that would be that if you prefer 1v1 or 2v1 matchups where the participants can agree to 'gentlemanly rules' then there are other options available to you as well.

In my OPINION, the AvA has the very best that AH2 has to offer, and has hamstrung it with all of this attitude, that seems to be very us vs. them, although I can't understand why.  We're all after the same thing, which is to fly pretend video game airplanes and have a good time.  We all WANT the same thing.

[475FG Savlan]

Toonces!

Its pretty apparent from all the effort and emotion that we all are pretty passionate about the game & the subject at hand.  This should give you a decent idea about how many people could/would be in the arena because of all it has to offer, but are not because of prevailing attitudes.

The main arenas are always gonna be popular because of one reason.

CHOICE.

The ability to fly what you want, how you want, when you want.

LW is more popular than MW or EW for the same reason, magnified. More choices as the plane set is bigger.

AvA with its stricter scope will never be a threat to a LW arena for the same reasons. A JG may not log in if there is a Pacific theme, and a P38 guy may not log in if its Battle of Britian.  Not that this is a bad thing - It gives a alternative to the player that tires of P51 vs P51 in the MA. And it rotates so its always fresh.

But narrow the scope of the AvA further with community enforced behavior mods, and you will drive away & further segment your 'target audience'.

And I believe that goes back to the original question, why is the AvA empty?

I submit that if you want 1v1 or 2v2, fair, balanced fights in a controlled environment with rules of engagement agreed to by both parties ( which I think pretty much sums up the things current AvA regulars strive for & have stressed here ) then what you are seeking is to duel.

Duel - a consensual fight between two people, with matched deadly weapons, in accordance with rules explicitly or implicitly agreed upon.

Pretty much sounds like what you AvA gents prefer.

And we have a dueling arena for just such a desire.

Now, if you'd like to take a bite out of the attendance of a LW main, consider a arena with the free form MA style, combined with all the AvA settings, planesets, and terrains, and all the hard work the AvA gents do to maintain such a arena and keep it fresh.

Instead of La7s ad infinitum, Corsairs, P40s & P38s mixing it up with Ki's, A6Ms, & NiK's.  TBMs & Vals hunting each others carrier groups. All with a beautiful CM terrain like the slot.   Judging by the complaints about the MA terrain rotation, I think some players are hungry for a change in their simming diet.

Or you can 1 v1 at 10k or under, from the two closest fields.

Which to me puts the stress of the arena on the duel, and not the Axis vs the Allies.

Maybe we should just rename the arena?