Author Topic: Jug is Handi-capped (Read 5740 times)

Uriel · « **Reply #45 on:** August 10, 2007, 02:59:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
I guess one just did.

lol.. I know your a great pilot lusche, sometimes email doesnt express meaning cause you cant see my face when Im talking to you.. I wasnt calling you an idiot. Im just saying 70 vs. 16- it doesnt take a genius

and to quote exactly it said with the NEW paddle prop the P47 could MATCH its climb

Vuokko · « **Reply #46 on:** August 10, 2007, 03:03:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by eilif

tedrbr · « **Reply #47 on:** August 10, 2007, 03:11:12 PM »

Gotta love the posts in forum after one of History Channel's "Doigfights" airs.

I wonder if the Jugs in "Dogfights: The Game" can out climb the 109's?

JimBeam · « **Reply #48 on:** August 10, 2007, 03:26:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hoffman
Uriel... it ain't the horsepower that counts, its whether or not your plane can use it.

If horsepower were the sole-determinant of how an aircraft performs, than the B-17 should be unstoppable. It should climb 4 times better than any fighter we have, fly 4 times faster, etc. etc.

The P-47 is a very big Aircraft. It has a 40 foot wingspan.
That's wider than most houses.
It also has a very big engine, which weighs a great deal and has to work harder to counter its own weight. Whereas smaller engines do not in order to get the same performance.

Sure the P-47 has big props, wide props, and can be very fast. I've outrun Tempests, Ponies, Spits, Corsairs, Lalas and almost caught a 262 in it.
But it sure as hell ain't an I Win button. Its a ground-attack fighter at low alts, in the hands of a good pilot it can dogfight some at low alts. In the hands of a great pilot it can dominate at low alts against bad-mediocre pilots. But down low its weight and size kill it. Lighter, faster aircraft can easily outperform it. Because unlike the Corsair, which is comparable in weight and horsepower, it can't use all those horses like the Corsair. Its not built like the Corsair and is possibly, given most MA conditions, the worst turnfighter I've ever seen. ... Except maybe a lancaster... I'll have to do some research on that one... (And yes, I have had someone chase me down and try to dogfight me with a lancaster...)

Where the P-47 exels in the dogfighting area, and what it is famous for, is high altitude fighting. Which you don't see very often in the MA because we don't have fleets of Bombers at 25,000 feet to escort.

Why it excelled so much in WWII is because at those high altitudes the 109 and 190, much lighter fighters with smaller engines, smaller props, and designed for lower engagements, were out of their element whereas the P-47 was in its glory zone.

Below 20,000 feet a Good pilot in a P-47 will likely lose to a good pilot in a 109. Simply because the 109 performs significantly better at mid-altitude.

plus the amount of drag created by the jugg at lower alts. compaired to a 109. like you said just having alot of power is only one piece of the puzzle

Furious · « **Reply #49 on:** August 10, 2007, 03:52:45 PM »

ya gotta stop using "facts" from the history channel in your arguements.

they don't research 'em, so why are you quoting 'em?

Lusche · « **Reply #50 on:** August 10, 2007, 03:54:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Uriel
Im just saying 70 vs. 16- it doesnt take a genius

You can even set up a similar thing even here:

Give me another veteran player. Doesn't even have to be one of that few legendary Jug pilots we do have. Put us into 2 P-47's, at any alt from 10-25k.

Then grab 9 two-weekers. Put then in any 109 a few thousand feet below us and tell them: "Get that planes above you!"

Having a more than 4-1 advantage won't save them. Their lack of experience (and thus the resulting lack of skill) combined with a tactical disadvantage will be more than sufficient to send them down in flames...

Karnak · « **Reply #51 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:00:01 PM »

1) The History Channel is a very bad source of information.

2) Start building a reliable library of books. Get primary source documents if possible.

3) The P-47 in AH is a very capable aircraft.

4) Look up Francis Gabreski's coment about the P-47 being a fighter.

bj229r · « **Reply #52 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:21:36 PM »

I remember watching a thing on 'wings' about the jug---until the M/N came out, it was described as a 'mid-alt' fighter....?

SkyRock · « **Reply #53 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:27:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Husky01
Hey!.................

dam I do have a come back!

Cept I haven't cherry picked with the jug in a while

awhile? as in this morning?

Bronk · « **Reply #54 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:28:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SkyRock
awhile? as in this morning?

More like "what time is it now?".

Bronk

Husky01 · « **Reply #55 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SkyRock
awhile? as in this morning?

Since last monthish.

Ive got a amazing total of 1 kill in the jug this month.

SkyRock · « **Reply #56 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:36:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bronk
More like "what time is it now?".

Bronk

Masherbrum · « **Reply #57 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:43:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Uriel
lol.. I know your a great pilot lusche, sometimes email doesnt express meaning cause you cant see my face when Im talking to you.. I wasnt calling you an idiot. Im just saying 70 vs. 16- it doesnt take a genius

and to quote exactly it said with the NEW paddle prop the P47 could MATCH its climb

YOU post the NUMBERS for us please. If yer "such a genius", then prove it.

humble · « **Reply #58 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:43:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Uriel
Lusche even an idiot will tell you numbers count

Hmmmm....

Take a flight out of the 56th (or any good jug squad) and group a bunch of baby seals (inexperienced) under them by even 3k or so....well Yucca, Blukitty and Nomde would take out about 30 inside 3-5 minutes. Figure husky, platano and a few others would easily get 5 apiece. So we have the 1st 50 gone in 5 minutes or so....

Numbers mean squat, PILOTS mean everything. If a good pilot is flying over an inexperienced gaggle the only number that matters is his kill #. As far back as WW1 experienced pilots often went out "hunting" alone. In WW2 pairs on both sides hunted the channel costs, one famsou luftwaffe pair even took lobsters and actually landed on the scottish coast for lunch...

The number that matters most is the number of "marks" on the side of the canopy:aok

vorticon · « **Reply #59 on:** August 10, 2007, 04:59:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Uriel
lol.. I know your a great pilot lusche, sometimes email doesnt express meaning cause you cant see my face when Im talking to you.. I wasnt calling you an idiot. Im just saying 70 vs. 16- it doesnt take a genius

and to quote exactly it said with the NEW paddle prop the P47 could MATCH its climb

quick qoutes from wikipedia:

"For weeks a handful of Hurricane IIs, aided by Group Captain A.B. Woodhall's masterly controlling, had been meeting, against all the odds, the rising crescendo of Field Marshal Kesselring's relentless attacks on Grand Harbour and the airfields. Outnumbered, usually, by 12 or 14 to one and, later – with the arrival of the Me 109Fs in Sicily – outperformed, the pilots of the few old aircraft which the ground crews struggled valiantly to keep serviceable, went on pressing their attacks, ploughing their way through the German fighter screens, and our flak, to close in with the Ju 87s and 88s as they dived for their targets."

"Malta's air defence rested on a few Gloster Gladiators which managed to hold out against vastly superior numbers of the Italian air force during the following three weeks. Four Hurricanes joined them at the end of June, and together they faced attacks throughout July from the 200 enemy aircraft based in Sicily, with the loss of one Gladiator and one Hurricane. "

so some p47s won once against ~4:1 odds...