Author Topic: P-47 dogfighting (Read 4241 times)

odin3 · « **on:** September 02, 2007, 10:50:16 AM »

I know alot of you are going to say that the P-47 is bad at dogfighting like most people i've asked in game.. But i've seen them in dogfights and looks to me they do well.. And this is by far my favorate plane out of them all and I would love to dogfight this.. But it is difficult for me to set up a schedule with a trainer cuz i dont know when the next time i'll be on.. But i would love to do that sometime... But for the mean time if anyone can give me some tips and pointers and the do's and donts would be great. And I know the p47 is great at high alts...

Thanks

The Fugitive · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2007, 11:14:50 AM »

The only problem with the P47 and dogfighting is most fights in the MAs happen at much lower alts where its not the best. Keep it fast, and don't do any sustained turns. I like the -25, its not the fastest, but it turns pretty good when you need it.To me it doesn't "feel" as heavy as the others. I think th biggest trick in the P47 is to know when to cut and run, regain some energy, and come back.

Vudak · « **Reply #2 on:** September 02, 2007, 11:29:56 AM »

The P-47 is another of those planes like the Corsair or P-40 or P-51, or, well, just about anything American with the possible exception of that ugly bomber

that you can "wallow around in" to have close-in knife fights with planes most people say you shouldn't.

If you want to get a feel for what she can do, I'd suggest going to the training arena, announcing on range that you are ok with having people practice their aim on you, and get as many on your six as possible. Then, try to get them off your six by forcing them to overshoot.

Don't worry about taking pings - they can't hurt you.

Also, it's worth noting... Attempting to turn fight in any large American plane in the MA on the DECK is *very* much more difficult than doing so with some clean air below you. Alt gives you options (and I do not mean, in any way, to run).

If you want, PM me next time you see me online. My ingame ID is the same as here, Vudak. I'll go with you into the TA and take my Corsair against you in a Spitfire or such. We'll knife fight, and you'll see how capable these birds are of holding their own. Much of the same tactics I'll employ in a Corsair will work in a P-47 too. (I'm pretty confident I can give you a run for your money in the Corsair, but I'm not so well-versed in the Jug, though the same idea and "style" applies).

stroker71 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 02, 2007, 11:30:58 AM »

If you can ever catch JensK online talk to him. He's from Sweden so his time on is different from the States. He is one of the few people I see landing air-air kills alot in the Jug.

odin3 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 02, 2007, 02:30:42 PM »

o.k. alright guys,, thanks a bunch and i'll take you up on that offer.. what arena do you play in the most? right now the spit is normaly the one I fly alot of so i'm kinda use to it.. still have problems shooting people down and shaking people off my six.. i'm trying to get use to the stall limiter off and thats kinda hard, cuz i started with it on...

WaRLoCkL · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2007, 03:30:13 PM »

Vudak is right, the best tactic for a Jug or a corsair is to force a overshoot, this can be done several ways, The great thing about that big fat plane is when u make a hard manuver it will slow down qucker than any other plane, which in turn will make it turn harder than your chaser plane for a few seconds, this is where u have the advantage is this is where u need to make your strike, plus a jug or corsair can take alot of punishment, so what i tend to do is dive down a little get my speed up, where these plans are better suited for turning, and make a hard break turn and listen for the overshoot, ususally u will stop hearing guns firing, then u turn back the other way and walla, you are behind him.

Unfortunetly your window of opurtunity is short since these planes do not regain speed very well, a ace pilot will see the overshoot and go verticle or climb knowing u cant follow, if he does this u are in trouble, but atleast u have cleared your six and may allow u time to get freindly help. Find someone who likes to fly these fat birds like myself or another corsair or jug sqaudron. We are always happy to help someone learn a plane that is hard to fly right, but when done right is a formidable opponent.

I can out turn spits with my Corsair when need be, and a jug is not far off from that performance, sometimes being able to slow down fast can be used to your advantage, u have to fly your plane in its best element.

Bruv119 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2007, 03:40:27 PM »

JensK or Balsy both very good jug pilots!

Most definitely an acquired taste.

Husky01 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2007, 03:41:36 PM »

P47 is the under plane of Aces High

Latrobe · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2007, 03:42:35 PM »

For some reason when I fly a P-47 low and fast I dieless often than when I'm high and fast. The P-47 is actually a dogfighter at heart, it's just the way it was built and the P-51 why it's mainly an attack plane. I've been flying the P-47D-40 alot and I like it. Keep it fast, don't get into a turn fight, and if you do don't stay in it very long. If someone comes in the HO you just give em a face full of led from your 8 50cals

.

bozon · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2007, 04:02:33 PM »

If you are making a transition from Spits to the Jug, you have to change your mind set completely. The Jug can dog fight quite decently, but what you have to remember is that it doesn't really turn. As mentioned above, it wallows instead.

To dogfight the jug, you have to think geometry instead of turn and apply careful E management. It is not like a spit where you pull the stick and work your way to the behind of your opponent, or just slam open the throttle and point the plane up. The maneuvers are more "complicated" and you work for that one good shot opportunity that you must hit. You count more on your ability to "out fly" the other guy than on the plane one wonder maneuver. By "out fly" I mean that the other guy is just a stick puller.

The only way to learn is to fly the jug and attack anything, even from disadvantage. Be super aggressive and don't Boom Zoom and Run, no matter what people tell you. Avoid the N model, it is the worst dogfighter of the jugs.

Oh yes, one final free advice, that is good for all: If you K/D is better than 3, you are not really fighting.

Good luck.

Serenity · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2007, 04:30:31 PM »

I LOVE dogfighting in the Jug. Its brilliant! It can DEFINATELY turn, just no sustained turns. I find the D-40 works best for me, simply because its a lot heavier, but Im trying to learn the D-11

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2007, 05:17:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Vudak is right, the best tactic for a Jug or a corsair is to force a overshoot,

I am sorry, I did not read it that way when Vudak mentioned to try and get people to overshoot...I read it as learning what the plane is capable of.......

I would not teach or tell anyone that the best tactic for a corsair ( F4U type ) or a Jug ( P47D type ) is to force overshoot maneuvers...... the overshoot maneuver is a last ditch effort in a defensive situation..

just saying.......

Bozon is spot on, flying with a mindset of geometery/angles & "out of plane maneuvering" is the proper way of dogfighting.....the Jug in my opinion needs to keep its speed up, and as Bozon mentions careful eye on the "E" management

only when you get in a situation to where you are trying to avoid your opponents guns from behind the 3/9 line should you begin to think of a possible overshoot type maneuver......

hope this helps....

Vudak · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2007, 05:42:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
I am sorry, I did not read it that way when Vudak mentioned to try and get people to overshoot...I read it as learning what the plane is capable of.......

I would not teach or tell anyone that the best tactic for a corsair ( F4U type ) or a Jug ( P47D type ) is to force overshoot maneuvers...... the overshoot maneuver is a last ditch effort in a defensive situation..

just saying.......

Bozon is spot on, flying with a mindset of geometery/angles & "out of plane maneuvering" is the proper way of dogfighting.....the Jug in my opinion needs to keep its speed up, and as Bozon mentions careful eye on the "E" management

only when you get in a situation to where you are trying to avoid your opponents guns from behind the 3/9 line should you begin to think of a possible overshoot type maneuver......

hope this helps....

Rgr that, TC, I was talking learning the low speed envelope.

...

One thing I'll say though, is when Bozon, TC, and I talk about "keeping the speed up," we're talking keeping it up to where you need it, and where you can use it. We aren't talking keeping it up as fast as it can go.

I think that's one thing that's very misinterpreted in these flight sims.

Hence my suggestion for having some clean sky below you. Having 5k to work with means being able to go nose low on some turns and manuevers to keep your speed up to the point where you can still go nose high as needed. Once you're on the deck, your options are very much limited in that regard.

Remember, you trade potential E (alt) for kinetic E (speed), and vice versa... Make sure you have enough in the bank to cover your checks

odin3 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2007, 08:53:14 PM »

oh wow.. thanks guys for the tons of info... now my next questions.. what is wallowing? and when you say dont boom and zoom, then some say dont turn fight.. umm what else is there LOL.. i'm kinda of confused now.

Bubbajj · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2007, 01:53:09 AM »

Wallowing: dropping flaps and trying to float your way to victory. Nothing dives like a jug, those things drop like lead bricks. Get some alt and jump on fleeing LA7s. They'll never know what hit em. I'm just starting to scratch the surface of the jug. Very difficult to master, very rewarding when you make a kill. I've seen some guys do incredible things with em. I am, thus far, merely cannon fodder but I sense that there is something there if I can just figure it out.