Dachau Waffen SS guard found in GA.

[Angus]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Screw him. Hang the scum........slowly.
Yea he had a choice and no he did not enter the country legaly. He concealed his true identity.

I take it as secure info that he belonged to the Dachau guards that actually turned their heels and ran (replacing themselves with drafted troops or folkssturm that didn'd know squat about what was going on and spent a day or two there before Dachau belonged to the US troops, some of which (loosing their temper) gunned down the new guards by some dozens))
If he does, well, it's eventually payday. None of the manning crew of Dachau can claim that it was a nice place. Although, it was by far not one of the worst.
They did do some gas-chamber tests there BTW.
I have actually been there. Was baffling me how big it was, always imagined those camps smaller. Got baffled many times more in Auzchwitz though.
So much for Nazi freedom of speech
( evil mode off)

[cpxxx]

Zero sympathy for him, after no one is going to brutalise him, starve him, set dogs on him, gas him  and burn his body.  All that will happen to him is that he be sent back to Germany and give up his cosy little life in America.

When you apply to visit the United States you are asked if you had any connection to Nazi party. I'm guessing he lied about that.

Despite the 'I was only obeying orders' excuse. Most Nazis believed they were doing the right thing even if they didn't like it much. On other thing to remember, even in the SS you could ask to be relieved of duties like that. They wouldn't shoot you for that. In fact many senior SS officers were worried about the psychological effect all this savagery would have on their men. You see they were quite 'civilised' really.

Save your sympathy for the victims.

Oh and by the way comparing Abu Ghraib and Gitmo with Nazi concentration camps is way out of order. Outrageous even.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by cpxxx
Oh and by the way comparing Abu Ghraib and Gitmo with Nazi concentration camps is way out of order. Outrageous even.

Slighter wrong doesn't make right. If the actions at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo aren't condemned, then what is stopping from doing it more? Should those be left unchecked they will remain as the first step to wider practice of wrong doing.

It will be too late by the time you realise there are camps run by the US administration equal to Dacchau. That's why you should never forget. Nazis didn't come to commit the attrocities in one giant leap.

Most Nazis believed they were doing the right thing even if they didn't like it much. On other thing to remember, even in the SS you could ask to be relieved of duties like that.

What if he did so? I'd be curious to know exactly that why he only served for 4 to 6 months at the concentration camps.

[Angus]

Originally posted by Mr No Name
Out of a war that lasted from 1939 to 1945, he served 6 months total as a guard dog handler... the majority of the time he was a regular soldier

In Sachsenhausen they would set the dogs to tear up prisoners that lagged behind doing "runs". Lagging behind could be the ones falling out of a prisoner formation (who's food supply was running for months on 900 kcal's a day) making a marathon run (some 25 miles) through a track with different material, like poddles, gravel, sand, mud, concrete etc.
This was done for boot testing. Record breakers in holding out were captured members of the British Commandoes, which held out for 5 months doing this up to daily. Then they got executed. (they managed to kill one of the officers while at it).
Dogs...yes. Pets.

[Viking]

This isn't about sympathy (or lack thereof). This is about justice by law and if we should jail (or hang) someone just because we don't like them (like the Nazis did). He has committed no crime that I can see.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Mr No Name


Leave him alone, guards/dog handlers were never high on the food chain anywhere.

I would think, the ones who were in the camp and only had contact with the gaurds, would disagree with you here.  Although the high command made the decisions, many of the orders were carried out with much vigor and callousness by the lowly gaurds.  To the detainees, the gaurds were the face and physical encarnation of Hitler's evil will.  He should be shown the empathy he gave those in the camp.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by SkyRock
He should be shown the empathy he gave those in the camp.

Would you please tell me what HE did at the camps? Exactly that is the problem here; we don't know what he did at the camps. People are judging him without knowing the details. All we know so far is that he served 4 to 6 months as a dog handler, but people are making assumptions as far as letting his dogs tear apart prisoners.

While these scenarios may be valid those are still not factual.

This is why we, in the modern world, have laws and courts. Otherwise we'd be running amock and lynching people based on our assumptions. It's difficult to be sorry afterwards when it turns out a person was lynched without a cause.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Viking
He has committed no crime that I can see.

Except helping keep control over those Jews that were being sent to the gas chamber or worked to death as slave labor.  


ack-ack

[MotorOil1]

Just tell Mossad where he is, let them decide.  If there's something to be done they'll take care of it and no one will be the wiser.

[Dowding]

If it can be proven he committed a crime while doing his 'duty', then he should be prosecuted.

I'm sure he deserves all the empathy, understanding and sensitivity he gave those under his 'care'. However, I have a personal method when it comes to decision making. It's called the mirror test; if I can look myself in the mirror in the morning and honestly say my decision was right, then it is the right decision.

Gitmo is a little different to Nazi death camps. The US soldiers there, as far as I can see, can walk out at any stage. They could take my test and decide either way on a course of action - stay or resign.

The Nazi camp guards had little choice - although some enjoyed it a little more than others. If it can be proven that they exercised barbarity within their own executive power (i.e. without specific orders), they should hang. It really is that simple.

Individual 'creativity' in a death camp among the guards, should be punished, if proven.

[BBBB]

The guys here who are saying this guy had a choice have obviously never served a day in their life in any military service. He was a dog handler. It was his job. He was ordered to go work at the camps. You do not get your choice in assignment during a war. You are sent where you are needed.
 
 This guy, as far as I can tell has done nothing wrong. He was ordered to work at the camp. He was ordered to train the other guards on how to handle the dogs and then he was ordered some where else. For most militarizes around the world failure to comply with orders given to you can result in imprisonment and, or, death.

 It seems to me he is not a loyalist to the Nazi party. He came to America. He has lived in peace here for some time. He has been a productive member of society and it appears he has not committed any crimes since coming to America. Soldiers do what they have to in war. It is survival. Some times this means killing, hurting, burning down villages, ect, ect. I do not know any guys who can say they enjoy killing.  However it is something that comes with the line of work we have chosen. Being a soldier is hard on many different levels. Doing things you do not like is one of the biggest parts of it.

 I do not think this guy is guilty of anything other than being associated with the Nazi party though his military service. However as someone has already pointed out, being a dog handler beats the hell out of being on the eastern front any day of the week. Even so this guy doesn't seem to be an evil killer. I say let him be.

-Spot

[VWE]

Originally posted by BBBB
The only problem I have with situations like this is the simple fact soldiers do as they are told. He was ordered to be stationed at that camp. He was ordered to guard it. He simply did as he was ordered. It is not as simple as saying "no" or "I won't" for him. He was a soldier, part of a military force. Unlike an officer of said force who makes decisions and orders for other troops. Officers are no doubt guilty, but a simple dog handler?

 Now, if it comes out that he willingly participated in the killing of civilians while on duty there then that is a different story all together, but so far these self proclaimed Nazi hunters have not proved that. So far all they have brought to the table against this guy is that he was a guard and a dog handler there.

 I have a buddy who is currently on duty at Gitmo. What happens to him if it is found that what they are doing there is against international law? Does his ordered presence there make him a war criminal? Of course not. He was/is simply doing as ordered. I am pretty sure this guy in the story is no different.

 These groups make simple duty sound as if this guy was some sort of cruel ****** who loved his job. I would like to hear his side of things before I say hang the guy.


-Spot

Nope, sorry... he volunteered for this gig http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071001/us_nm/usa_crime_nazi_dc

Buh bye, byeeee... no simpathy. Everything comes full circle, eventually.

[Dowding]

I'm pretty sure you have to have pretty much bought-in to the Nazi viewpoint to join the SS. Only conscipts after 1943 were considered exempt from Nuremburg rulings that declared the Waffen-SS criminal.

This guy was in it from the start. Sounds like he enjoyed the lifestyle. And the cool looking caps with skulls on them...

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by BBBB
The guys here who are saying this guy had a choice have obviously never served a day in their life in any military service. He was a dog handler. It was his job. He was ordered to go work at the camps. You do not get your choice in assignment during a war. You are sent where you are needed.  
 

Maybe this will clear it up.

Henss joined the Hitler Youth organization in Germany in 1934 as a 12 or 13-year-old boy and joined the Nazi Party in September 1940. In early 1941, Henss volunteered to serve in the Waffen SS and became an SS dog handler in 1942 after serving in the elite Waffen SS combat unit “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler.”

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Jackal1
Maybe this will clear it up.

And I cleared it up a bit before. Exactly this why 13 year olds aren't considered adults - they are ineligible to make decisions themselves. They can be too easily manipulated to make a decision.