BOB pilots dint do much!!!!

[rogerdee]

Today on tv in england we had a stupid historian saying that the Battle of Britain should be rewrittern.

He clamed that most of the pilots  envolved were porly trained ,could hardly fly straight and couldn't hit a barn door with a cow.

Id love to hit him with a barn door.

this guys was in his late 30s early 40's and he made me ashamed to be nea r that age.this so called Historian  needed a swift kick in the rear.

I would like to see how he would manage to take up a hurricane or spitfire at 18 with  not many flight hours up against a overwhelming enemy force,go up and try to kill others the same age ,then land and do it all over again numorse times aday day after day.

They were the few and every day they get fewer What they did was almost the impossable.

Historians like this should be sent some where nice and warm
like Bazra.


ok rant over

[MiloMorai]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=S0QRI5X4URLGTQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/10/30/npilots130.xml

The Few didn't do so bad considering how crappy he says they were.

[Masherbrum]

....and still no recognition to the Polish Squadrons that really got the shaft.

[Vulcan]

Thats kinda true though isn't it? Some of the pilots were kids with 4 hours training under their belts max? The Luftwaffe actually did reasonably well fighter vs fighter in the battle. Of course the RAF did better fighter vs bomber. And the RAF had a number of factors in their favour (fuel, bailing over friendly territory etc).

Yes the RAF pilots did put in a massive effort and put their butts on the line as the last line of britains defence. But they weren't super aces or anything as such.

[Mark Luper]

To me that's bordering on sacriledge. Seriously.

Mark

[68Wooley]

There's nothing particularly controversial in what the guy's claiming:

1. Many RAF pilots were extremely short of training
2. Tactics - particularly the Area Fighting Tactics favoured by Dowding before the battle, were poor.
3. Rifle caliber bullets were not the best for downing bombers.
4. Many pilots were poor shots.
5. Claims were overstated (by both sides).
6. The Germans never invaded because the Royal Navy would have run them down in The Channel. No need to shoot them, just drive a couple of Cruisers through the invasion fleet and see what the wash did to the barges the Germans were assembling.
7. The role of the RAF was exaggerated by Churchill who desperately needed some kind of victory to keep the British spirit up.

None of this detracts in any way from the bravery of the men of the RAF who knew the odds they were facing and threw everything they had at the Germans.

To get a true reflection of the Battle of Britain, try reading 'Piece of Cake' by Derek Robinson - its a great book.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Mark Luper
To me that's bordering on sacriledge. Seriously.

Mark

Why so?

I think having a realistic point of view of what really happened leads you to have even more respect for the RAF pilots than you would if you believed the old school line. Think of what balls it would take as an 18 year who had 4 hours flight training to go up against the dreaded 109s of the Luftwaffe (who'd just rolled through half of europe).

[Arlo]

We should never let facts get in the way of legend, eh? And that's not slighting the brave men who died defending Britain from the Luftwaffe. But I'm seeing more "I don't wanna hear anything I perceive as dishonoring my heros!" when the historian was probably just stating the facts behind the battle (his accuracy can still be disputed when it comes to statistics, I suppose). Doesn't make it any less heroic or amazing. Moreso, I'd say.

Some people are just a little too easily disturbed over something they don't even really understand. And that's the problem with contemporary events, not just historical.

*ShruG*

Brave defenders of Britian.

[Mark Luper]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Why so?

I think having a realistic point of view of what really happened leads you to have even more respect for the RAF pilots than you would if you believed the old school line. Think of what balls it would take as an 18 year who had 4 hours flight training to go up against the dreaded 109s of the Luftwaffe (who'd just rolled through half of europe).

You are correct Vulcan. I'm aware of all that but to try to demean in any way or try to reduce the importance of what those young men did at that point in time when the need was the greatest seems a bit cheap. True, Churchill gloryfied them but in doing so it gave the common man a hero. It struck me wrong and I suppose my reaction is emotional.

Mark

[detch01]

So called historians who cherry pick the facts to support a predetermined result give me gas.


asw

[storch]

that is amazing!! and I though only we here in the USA suffered fools such as this person.

[storch]

Originally posted by Vulcan
Why so?

I think having a realistic point of view of what really happened leads you to have even more respect for the RAF pilots than you would if you believed the old school line. Think of what balls it would take as an 18 year who had 4 hours flight training to go up against the dreaded 109s of the Luftwaffe (who'd just rolled through half of europe).

the defense of britian was masterful on all levels, leadership, airmen and code breakers remove any single element and the results would have been markedly different.  while we're at it not enough is ever said of the sand demonstarted by the civilian population who took it on the chin night after night.  churchill got it right.

now stop this or I will be forced to post at least 15 negative posts about you guys to make up for these two.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Mark Luper
You are correct Vulcan. I'm aware of all that but to try to demean in any way or try to reduce the importance of what those young men did at that point in time when the need was the greatest seems a bit cheap. True, Churchill gloryfied them but in doing so it gave the common man a hero. It struck me wrong and I suppose my reaction is emotional.

Mark

I'll remember that all we're really seeing, at this point, is rogerdee's emotional take on the broadcast .

[Rino]

Wow..with all these crappy soldiers, sailors and airmen the Allies fielded, it's
amazing that the Axis managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  
Go ahead..piss all over the generation that was there, after all they didn't have
your 20-20 hindsight about how it was all going to turn out.

     Facts are, the RAF did prevent the LW from gaining air superiority without
which they could do didly about the Royal Navy's preventing an amphibious
invasion.  They got the job done, whether it stands up to your expert analysis
or not.

[Dichotomy]

How about 'they were called and they went'?  

Regardless of skills, tactics, equipment, etc.., these young men went to put their lives on the line in defense of their country.  

While hindsight is 20 / 20 I do believe that it should be noted in every historical account accurate or inaccurate that the soldiers and airmen of all sides were young men that put their lives on the line every day for what their political masters told them was the 'right' thing.

As I understand it when the bullets start flying you can take all of the politics out of it and it's about surviving, taking care of the man next to you, and making sure you all get home.  

Never been there myself and for that I'm honestly ashamed that I haven't served.