Author Topic: so what do you do?  (Read 2289 times)

Offline B@tfinkV

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so what do you do?
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2007, 11:14:50 PM »
See Rule #5
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:17:58 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Leslie

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so what do you do?
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2007, 12:24:52 AM »
B@tfink, while carrying a gun may give a false sense of security, I would just about have to say a person who does so does so at their own risk.  It would be foolish of them to go around looking forward to shooting someone.  I do not believe the majority of people carrying guns are out there thinking they are invincible.  By analogy, some people who are very tough have been known to go looking for trouble and getting into fights.  That does not necessarily mean everyone with such a capability of toughness goes around looking for trouble.  I would say the opposite is true most of the time.  I believe someone carrying a hand gun can be responsible, and that most permitted carriers are very careful about what they do and they do not go looking for trouble.  I also believe folks should not carry a gun if they are uncomfortable with it, and yes it could become a hindrance in a fist fight scenario.  You certainly wouldn't want your gun to go flying out of your pocket in a grappling ordeal.  It is the gun carrier's responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen.

Now this is all fine about being a man if you are in good shape and have grappling experience.  After about age 50, macho becomes expensive and less meaningful.  Actually it is seen by older, more mature folks as not being a wise path.  I believe that as we get older and slower and out of shape either by choice or other reasons, we become more careful about how we go about business.  I would say that if someone chose to carry a gun for self protection, they are not very likely to seek trouble and certainly aren't trying to be macho as long as the gun is concealed.  You must never confuse concealed carry with Hollywood's Charles Bronson character in the Vigilante.  It just ain't so.

More than likely, anyone legally carrying a gun is going out of their way to avoid trouble the same way you do even though you can defend yourself and can even put the hurt on someone.  I don't want any means of self defense to be banned, be it concealed hand guns or martial arts.  This has really less to do with manliness as much as it has to do with fundamental rights of free men and women in a free society.  It is unconscionable to impede these rights in any way, form or fashion.  It is way off base for any govt. to even desire to do so.





Les

Offline KgB

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« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2007, 12:28:46 AM »
See Rule #5
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:18:17 PM by Skuzzy »
"It is the greatest inequality to try to make unequal things equal."-Aristotle

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2007, 12:54:26 AM »
steve

i never intended to talk about bloody guns again with you over there, i simply came into your character assasination of nilsen who just wanted to be the best dad he knows he can be in his own method, not yours.

you made it another gun vs no gun confrontation with me without realising i was not here for that old debate at all, yet i almost found myself being lured back to fight you on anti gun vs gun laws again, even though i dont give a damn about the gun ownership debate and never have. when i got into the swing of it you got so irate that you walked out instead of trying to combat my point.


Everything Pro Gun you can tell me i cannot deny and dont wish to, please do other people the courtesy of not having to agree with you and change their lives or their country instantly just because you have guns.

honestly, its worse than gays when coming out became 'ok'.

its like anyone so incredibly pro guns is trying to force the other people to be gay also. we dont mind that you have guns, but we dont want to worry about us having them untill they are as available as in some other countries as a first time starting point.

basicaly unless you are coming to england to campaign parliment for legalising firearms in england then hey, maybe we can go over the pros and cons of gun ownership again and it actualy be worthwhile, although i suspect even with a change in my country's laws i might actualy still not really give a crap who if a person wants or doesnt want to carry a gun.

im sorry i pissed you off and i never cared much about whatever you were trying to proove to nilsen, and then me.


Leslie

thank you sir as always you make your point so clear i cannot disagree.

would you agree that in some instances, especialy involving young people the possesion of a gun will drag some people further into trouble than they possibly know when without a gun they would have kept out and ran off to watch tv?

the sad part maybe the shootout between the respectable pensioner who has never fired a shot in anger and the teenage addict who just has to find another 20 notes to get a fix. someone has to die or bottle it and become the dominated but only because both knew the other quite likely had a weapon that will kill on their person.

never the less, when the punk kid pulls a gun on you because they are legal in your country, it makes perfect sense to be a sharp and trained marksman and arm yourself legaly.



then you must be able to see that i understand why guns are part of some peoples life and im ok with it and dont wish to join in at the moment.



KGB -

well, if angry steve came to my house and pointed a gun at me i would sure look pretty silly. and i know steve doesnt have a fragile brain but yup i think he might be dangerous too. we should not anger him further.
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Offline SteveBailey

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so what do you do?
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2007, 12:56:12 AM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:19:22 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline KgB

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« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2007, 01:00:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
B@tfink, while carrying a gun may give a false sense of security, I would just about have to say a person who does so does so at their own risk.  It would be foolish of........................... .................
Les

My friend,i noticed that for Americans(plz forgive me) first priority is always looks.If you big and Strong then I'm supposed to be afraid of you.Why?I blame juridical system.People are simply afraid of being sued.Every time i see Americans fight i laugh my butt off,(again,forgive me)its pathetic.It rarely ends up with fist fight.Usually its someone  is trying to hit someone in the balls or over the head with bottle.Thers no "concept" of fair fight ever.If I'm Small why should i fight fair?
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Offline KgB

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« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2007, 01:05:37 AM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:19:56 PM by Skuzzy »
"It is the greatest inequality to try to make unequal things equal."-Aristotle

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2007, 01:08:56 AM »
See Rule #5
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:21:57 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2007, 01:12:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
See Rule #5


:lol
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:22:18 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline rpm

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« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2007, 01:23:35 AM »
Nils is thinking big picture. You guys are thinking small screen.

If you have no children and nobody depending upon you then playing hero may be an appropriate response. BUT, if you do then descretion is the better part of valor.

Do you really want your loved ones to become collateral damage if you screw the pooch over a billfold?
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Offline SteveBailey

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« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2007, 02:08:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Nils is thinking big picture. You guys are thinking small screen.

If you have no children and nobody depending upon you then playing hero may be an appropriate response. BUT, if you do then descretion is the better part of valor.

Do you really want your loved ones to become collateral damage if you screw the pooch over a billfold?


Do you really want to let a violent criminal decide if you live or die?

Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2007, 02:12:37 AM »
do you also live in fear that you might get hit by a bus when you go to the store to buy ammo?
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Offline SD67

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« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2007, 02:31:58 AM »
Speaking as someone who has been confronted by a violent armed individual on my property, I say stand your ground.
Due to the fact that we are not permitted to own guns here in Oz (evidentially the criminals deserve to own them more than we do) all I had to defend my house was a handy length of wood. Unfortunately this was at the entrance to the wrong door. This guy came to the back door.
My partner at the time called the police but I was not going to stand by and let the guy come in. They are called "run throughs", where they come in the back door, run through taking all they can grab, out the front and into a waiting car.
Anyway this guy didn't make it in the door. I have a rule for situations like this, the first guy through the door dies, and I was fully intent on killing this one. In the end it took his partner to come out of the car and deliver several kicks to the body and head before I let him go.
The score, me some bruising and a broken rib and a nasty headache, the other guy, 2 broken arms, 3 missing teeth and severe concussion. Did he make it into the house? Not even past the doorstep.
The weapons in question? he had a pissy flick knife and a .22 Saturday night special. He never even got the chance to raise the arm he was holding it in.
The police turned up 30 minutes after it was all over.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2007, 02:35:14 AM by SD67 »
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Offline Leslie

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« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2007, 02:34:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by KgB
My friend,i noticed that for Americans(plz forgive me) first priority is always looks.If you big and Strong then I'm supposed to be afraid of you.Why?I blame juridical system.People are simply afraid of being sued.Every time i see Americans fight i laugh my butt off,(again,forgive me)its pathetic.It rarely ends up with fist fight.Usually its someone  is trying to hit someone in the balls or over the head with bottle.Thers no "concept" of fair fight ever.If I'm Small why should i fight fair?


Yes it is that way it seems.  It's very effective for a small fighter to get in low to the balls, or even hit someone over the head with a bottle.  You know, that's not unheard of here in America.  That's probably the best way for bar room brawls though.  It would be unusual for that to happen most anywhere else.

Looks are a form of self defense.  Most people are not hip on attacking someone big.  Profanity is also an effective weapon in some circumstances.  It throws people off guard momentarily.:D

However you are right concerning a fair fight.  All fights are/can be life and death situations, or at least should be thought of that way.  




Les

Offline moot

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« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2007, 02:37:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Nils is thinking big picture. You guys are thinking small screen.

If you have no children and nobody depending upon you then playing hero may be an appropriate response. BUT, if you do then descretion is the better part of valor.

Do you really want your loved ones to become collateral damage if you screw the pooch over a billfold?

Sometime in the early 90s, I was walking with my dad in Paris, France, in the underground mall (sorta) of La Defense esplanade, a central public place of Paris'.  As we were about to step up a stairway at the end of a stub in the mall layout, with a few pillars placed concentricaly with the stairways' foot where such a pillar would have been, two people went from bickering to fighting, and within seconds one had a gun out.  
This is France, gun-free country like a lot of others, yadda yadda.
At this point my dad freaked out, as it had probably been a while since he'd run into the middle of firearmed conflict.  He wasn't freaked out for his life but ours, my two little brothers' (then toddlers just recently walking on their own) and mine.  All I remember was him hiding us behind one of those pillars.  It was luck that no shot went off because the guy holding the gun was sweating like hell and obviously afraid of what he'd gotten himself into by pulling out the gun.  Had he not been afraid, he'd have had time to plug as many people as his mag capacity allowed, since just about everyone ducked for cover.
Anyone with a CCW in the public could have pretended to be unarmed, and would have had plenty of time to incapacitate the bugger from behind one of those pillars, especialy considering said bugger's target fixation (he must have stood still pointing his gun at the other guy a minute or so before that other guy wised-up and charged).

Another instance pretty much identical happened in Canada, in Toronto, years later at a Harbourfront music festival, late at night.  We weren't really near the gun toters that time, but close enough that the run-away stampede was pretty bad even for me at 13 years old or so.
There was plenty of space and cover for a few CCWs to put down anyone pointing their guns at anyone not involved in what was probably a gang fight.

You don't have to live in fear to avoid getting hit by buses.  You don't have to be paranoid to recognize threats to you, and take precautions for their prevention as well as resolution if prevention fails.
It's simple fact and nothing extraordinary.  The one constant in anti-gun rethoric is the near-paranoia that anyone will pull out a gun and go on a rampage.  Only insane people do that, and they're few in numbers, as well as easily detected.

My dad carrying a gun would have put a quick and good end to the first anecdote.  No paranoia needed.
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