Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?

[Golfer]

To the letter of the law if it (the states law) describes using the carried weapon as a last resort you, legally, cannot use it if you have an avenue of escape.  If the shooting is going on in an east wing of a mall and I (private citizen with a CCW) am in the west wing and go looking for trouble I can for damn sure find myself in trouble.  If things worked out "well" and the shooter ended up dead guess who the family of the dead shooter is going to come after?

I wasn't in the situation to tell you what I'd do but my inclination is if I'm not in the immediate vicinity of what's happening and as such I am not in danger...I'm staying out of the way keeping as many folks away as I can.  If I knowingly enter a hostile area then I might as well be walking into jail for a good long time because it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up a felon in the mess when the lawyers got done with me

I'll leave the heroics to Martin Riggs and John McClane.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by Golfer
To the letter of the law if it (the states law) describes using the carried weapon as a last resort you, legally, cannot use it if you have an avenue of escape.  If the shooting is going on in an east wing of a mall and I (private citizen with a CCW) am in the west wing and go looking for trouble I can for damn sure find myself in trouble.  If things worked out "well" and the shooter ended up dead guess who the family of the dead shooter is going to come after?

I wasn't in the situation to tell you what I'd do but my inclination is if I'm not in the immediate vicinity of what's happening and as such I am not in danger...I'm staying out of the way keeping as many folks away as I can.  If I knowingly enter a hostile area then I might as well be walking into jail for a good long time because it wouldn't surprise me if I ended up a felon in the mess when the lawyers got done with me

I'll leave the heroics to Martin Riggs and John McClane.

In researching CCW for the Pink Thread I came across this...

Texas signs new self-defense by gun law --> http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2721289620070327

excerpt: "By Ed Stoddard

DALLAS (Reuters) - Criminals in Texas beware: if you threaten someone in their car or office, the citizens of this state where guns are ubiquitous have the right to shoot you dead.

Governor Rick Perry's office said on Tuesday that he had signed a new law that expands Texans' existing right to use deadly force to defend themselves "without retreat" in their homes, cars and workplaces.

"The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature," Perry said on his Web site.

The new law, which takes affect on September 1, extends an exception to a statute that required a person to retreat in the face of a criminal attack. The exception was in the case of an intruder unlawfully entering a person's home.

The law extends a person's right to stand their ground beyond the home to vehicles and workplaces, allowing the reasonable use of deadly force, the governor's office said.

The reasonable use of lethal force will be allowed if an intruder is:

- Committing certain violent crimes, such as murder or sexual assault, or is attempting to commit such crimes

- Unlawfully trying to enter a protected place

- Unlawfully trying to remove a person from a protected place.

The law also provides civil immunity for a person who lawfully slays an intruder or attacker in such situations.

Texas joins several other states including Florida that have or are considering similar laws.

Sympathy for violent offenders and criminals in general runs low in Texas, underscored by its busy death row. The state leads the United States in executions with 388 since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976 by the U.S. Supreme Court.

A conservative political outlook and widespread fondness for hunting also means Texans are a well-armed people capable of defending themselves with deadly force.

It is easy to acquire guns over the counter in Texas and lawful to carry a concealed handgun with a permit."

About the Castle Doctrine :
New Texas Gun Laws --> http://vesler.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-gun-laws-in-texas.html


I am from Texas.

You can take the girl out of Texas but you can't take Texas out of the girl.

TIGERESS

[Halo]

(quote)  Some questions you might ask your self if you think this might happen and you have a gun.   If I shoot this person, am I going to shoot someone else? I saved the day by killing the shooter, but one of my rounds kill a 6month old baby behind him that I did not see. Can I live knowing that I killed a child?

Whenever you use a gun in self defense you will have to answer for it. It might be clear as to what happened and the local DA will not file charges. The again, if you stay and shoot the person, one of the question you will be asked and have to show (usually at the seine) how were YOU threatened/ Did YOU have a way out? Why did YOU take the law into your own hands?

If you start shooting, will others think you are part of the problem? Will you get shot by the other good person trying to stop the shooter?

Can you live with your self if you duck and run and many others are killed?

This is really not a question you can ask where there is a simple answer. It will be different for everyone you talk to. Most will say, I’ll shoot the guy”. Well they just might, but no plan works out the way you think when the lead is flying.  (unquote)

Whole lotta thinking going on there.  Forums like this are good places for such introspection.  A key issue is such unofficial responders not getting confused with the attacker(s).  But during an actual attack, hopefully that background perspective would coalesce into selflessly attacking the shooter to stop the slaughter and worry about legal nitpicking later.  

Attackers rely on surprise, shock, and herd confusion.  If targets en masse would turn on the attacker with any weapon they have -- teeth, fingernails, purses, shoes, belts -- there might be much less inclination for the attack to ever happen.

Time for society to start teaching mass response to such terrorist actions instead of passive or no resistance.

[JB88]

one baby or nine people?

besides...you take your shot when it's best.

even if you missed you would only risk sacrificing yourself as the gunmans eyes turned to you...allowing others to escape.

nothing wrong with taking a bullet to save nine more.  gotta go sometime.

it would take the shine off of it if these wackjobs didnt think they would get very far if they tried.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by Halo
(quote)  Some questions you might ask your self if you think this might happen and you have a gun.   If I shoot this person, am I going to shoot someone else? I saved the day by killing the shooter, but one of my rounds kill a 6month old baby behind him that I did not see. Can I live knowing that I killed a child?

Whenever you use a gun in self defense you will have to answer for it. It might be clear as to what happened and the local DA will not file charges. The again, if you stay and shoot the person, one of the question you will be asked and have to show (usually at the seine) how were YOU threatened/ Did YOU have a way out? Why did YOU take the law into your own hands?

If you start shooting, will others think you are part of the problem? Will you get shot by the other good person trying to stop the shooter?

Can you live with your self if you duck and run and many others are killed?

This is really not a question you can ask where there is a simple answer. It will be different for everyone you talk to. Most will say, I’ll shoot the guy”. Well they just might, but no plan works out the way you think when the lead is flying.  (unquote)

Whole lotta thinking going on there.  Forums like this are good places for such introspection.  A key issue is such unofficial responders not getting confused with the attacker(s).  But during an actual attack, hopefully that background perspective would coalesce into selflessly attacking the shooter to stop the slaughter and worry about legal nitpicking later.  

Attackers rely on surprise, shock, and herd confusion.  If targets en masse would turn on the attacker with any weapon they have -- teeth, fingernails, purses, shoes, belts -- there might be much less inclination for the attack to ever happen.

Time for society to start teaching mass response to such terrorist actions instead of passive or no resistance.

If you start shooting, will others think you are part of the problem? Will you get shot by the other good person trying to stop the shooter?

Prehaps they would shoot me. Same for a plain clothes police officer in the same situation.

Can you live with your self if you duck and run and many others are killed?

No I couldn't live with myself.

My karma would also be damaged beyond hope if I didn't...

I simply couldn't live with myself if I could have stopped it and didn't.

I would do it even if it meant I died doing so by friendly fire. I mean it.

These are among the questions I have been pondering because of the Pink Thread. --> http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220697

I don't have a gun and never have. Doesn't mean I will or wont in the future, though.

The responsibility to partake of gun ownership, and, in doing so, having control of deadly firearm force is quite staggering and very very sobering.

I wonder how many people who own guns and who carry guns really think about these particular questions of responsibility.

TIGERESS

[john9001]

yeah, you shoot him and some overzealous prosecutor that wants more convictions to further their political career says you used excessive force to kill a mentally challenged person.

no thanks, unless he is shooting at me i will "redeploy".

[lasersailor184]

I'm not sure if you're aware, Tigeress, that you used "Could" instead of "Should."  This may seem like a trivial or insignificant difference, but it really isn't.

[JB88]

Originally posted by john9001
yeah, you shoot him and some overzealous prosecutor that wants more convictions to further their political career says you used excessive force to kill a mentally challenged person.

no thanks, unless he is shooting at me i will "redeploy".

silly.

"i didn't help because i was afraid i'd get sued."

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm not sure if you're aware, Tigeress, that you used "Could" instead of "Should."  This may seem like a trivial or insignificant difference, but it really isn't.

I understand you point Sailor.

In the sentence:
I simply couldn't live with myself if I could have stopped it and didn't.
 I used "Could" for a valid reason.

It's not a forgone conclusion I could prevent a further shooting because I don't presently own a gun and whether I will or will not in the future is still an unknown.

Given the ability to stop such an event in progress, personally I "would"...no question of "should" about it for me.

Should is about judgments; could is about possibility; would is about action.

I am not afraid to die.

I made peace with my Maker about this unavoidable consequence of life long ago. But that doesn't mean I stand in the middle of the freeway either.

How someone dies can be as important to humanity as how they lived.

That is why I am so reverent about those who fall in combat to protect us... We The People.

TIGERESS

[Shamus]

If I were in fear for my life I would probably shoot the guy.

Being in fear for my life would naturally put me close enough to be confident in hitting him.

I would not start banging away in a crowded mall otherwise.

shamus

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by shamroc
everyone  in the media seems to be reporting that the weapon used was an "Assault Rifle" (which was not the case - it was a conventional semi-auto carbine).

shamroc

Hmmm...news reports I've seen and read report the weapon to be a semi-auto version of the AK-47.


ack-ack

[shamroc]

Originally posted by APDrone
Nebraska does have a concealed gun permit.. or whatever they're called. Something they passed in the last year.  I only know about it because a sign

My bad - I have not been to Omaha for about 2 years now... last time I was there you couldn't CCW.  

FWIW I actually went to the mall in question on my last trip.


Shamroc

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Picture this.. You have a carry permit.

You see a nutjob open fire so you pop a few rounds in him. At the end of the isle another person has a permit and sees you shoot after several shots in the mall, so he decides to stop YOU the raving lunatic and shoots you. Makes people think twice before shooting doesn't it.

[lasersailor184]

See Rule #5

[APDrone]

Originally posted by shamroc


FWIW I actually went to the mall in question on my last trip.


Shamroc

I work about 4 miles from there. I go every now and then when I do some shopping at lunch or dine at the food court.

Or, when I'm looking for something impulsive to surprise the wife with. Gotten a lot of good ideas from there over the years.