Females in combat zones/jobs. Good Idea? Bad idea?

[Charon]

My thought is that if a female soldier could life my, say, 200 lb bulk over her shoulder and haul me off the battle field or pull me out of a burning APC I would have no problem with that. Otherwise, she is endangering my life for a political statement. Combat is still about kill or be killed, and physicality still plays a notable role in that in many MOS'

As laser said, if she can perform the task without adjustment or accommodation for  he physical abilities then fine. I was never a recruitment poster bulk of muscle as a soldier, but I could perform my combat arms task to standards.

Charon

[Tigeress]

I have stated before... men are physically superior to us.

I, for one, do not want to be a foot soldier unless my country ran out of enough able-bodied men to keep the enemy from the cities, streets, and doors of my fellow citizens.

Bottom line... when a country does not have enough male combatants to defend itself, female combatants go to war.

Case in point: Russia during WWII and Israel present day.

In cases like these, all the "should we allow" business goes right out the window.

That is a serious reason I think women have a place in the military, even if we are not active ground combatants.

We are the reserve ground combatants and good flying combatants unless you want us to just cozy up with your conquerors after they win.

BTW, I would probably be good at driving a tank or being a sniper or flying something like a chopper or warthog or a bomber.

Personally, I think I would get a lot of satisfaction out of driving a warthog... sending those ground SOBs to Hell.

A-10 vs. the bad guys--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ng8icQ7I4

TIGERESS

[Hap]

No combat zone duty for the ladies says I.

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by Hap
No combat zone duty for the ladies says I.

Female combatants aren't ladies dear they are professional killers.

TIGERESS

[Ack-Ack]

Has it degraded our fighting abilities at all having women serve in combat?  We have women doing foot patrols in Iraq, coming home wounded and sadly in body bags.  

Honestly, debating whether or not they are qualified kind of is a slap in the face to the women that are fighting and dying on the front lines along with the men.


ack-ack

[Rich46yo]

A woman with a gun in her hands scares me even more then a man with one. Never underestimate the ruthlessness of a woman.

[TalonX]

If (and this is a huge if) they can meet the same physical standards of the male soldiers, then they qualify for combat zone duty.

That said, I do buy into the belief that male soldiers would take risks for a woman they would not for a man.   I know the code, but women would put men at risk.

[Saxman]

I think the Israelis did a study on the psychological effects women soldiers had on their male comrades in a combat situations. They have one of the best-trained and most disciplined armies in the world, and yet they found that the male soldiers were naturally more likely to break ranks when a woman was hit than if it were another man.

Responses included increases in aggressiveness toward the enemy (some of the men in the study were driven to the point of rage) and an increased likelihood to abandon their position or objectives to aid a wounded female soldier. The men were also more protective of their female comrades.

Additionally, and at least in Western armies, men have been found to generally be more reluctant to open fire on a woman on the opposing side than they are another man. This is part of the problem that female suicide bombers present.

[LEADPIG]

The fact is this. Women have been fighting for equal treatment in this country for along time. And if America actually lived up to what it said, then it wouldn't have been an issue. If women want the same rights as men then they have the right to be drafted and die just as everyone else. They should fill out selective service cards.  It is the burden or privelage of every male to be ready to be called if needed. Women should do so too. No bull**** if they want equal rights, they get them, including the ones they don't want.

As a black man i could tell you about the story of my dad being drafted and then not being allowed the simple right to sit where he wanted too in piece. Or the numerous folks who died for this country only to have there children beatened and whipped and dogs sicked on them when trying to vote. So too for women, you want your rights go ahead, but it goes both ways. The people i mentioned fought for there country and were treated like ***** in return. Take they're cue and step out there. Question is, do you like the special treatment? There are some places to be treated like a lady, and some not, and that is not on a battlefield. So if women are willing to except that, good on ya then.

Can women be efective soldiers? ...Yes. Will it change the battlefield?...... Possibly. But it would only change because of the stupid fools that would try to rape somebody or be more willing to help a woman then help a male counterpart. Should women suffer for this mentality? .... No. If they are willing to take that on, fine then. But the fact is it would possibly change things, and the purpose of a war is to win at all cost and there is no room for complications. Fact is there are differences between men and women, and i very much believe not just physical. Our brains are hardwired in different ways. Should the U.S. government allow women to fight in a war and be fighting that natural instinct as well as the enemy at the same time? It would probably be counterproductive. It might cause us to lose, and if we lose a war we all die.

[Bluedog]

Tigress, I am 35 and no, I'm not trolling.
I was fishing for a response(particularly from you ladies of the board), there is no doubt about that, but I am not trying to deliberately upset people or belittle women in any way.

As for me refering to women as 'weaker'....to me they are, a lot of men are too.
I am 199cm tall and weigh 120 kg, I regularly bench 155kg and curl 50kg one handed. Not bragging, just stating a fact.
Any woman who is physically stronger is not very feminine at all.

I am also aware that there are and always have been women on the battlefields of the world who could kill me in two seconds flat....probably even quicker, I am too big to hide....when everyone hit the dirt, it would be my arse sticking up and getting shot.

Originally posted by moot
You believe in something you know is flawed?
There's nothing more wrong about women in combat than there is about men or children. It's all barbaric.

The man has a point there, no denying it.

Originally posted by Tigeress


Saying women should not serve in the military because of interaction with men isn't something I find I can agree with.

If some men can't keep their sexual instincts under control, who's fault is that?

TIGERESS

Question is, is it right to place a woman in the situation where those men have that opportunity, regardless of whose fault it is.

I don't think sexual harassment/rape is right by any means.
Just because it isn't right doesn't mean it wont happen.

Originally posted by Saxman
I'm of two minds:

First, I believe women have the same potential ability as men to serve in combat. Women combatants is a historical fact, and BEYOND the Russians in WWII (for example the Norse/Germanic shieldmaidens, and many of the Celtic tribes men and women shared in combat equally). Furthermore, if a woman wants to serve her country she has every right to do so.

But...

I HATE the thought of a woman's life in danger. There's just something I find fundamentally wrong about putting a woman in a position where she's deliberately targeted by lethal force, and exposing her to the horror of combat. Partly, it's because I have a desire to protect, shelter, and take care of her: better *I* have to face that danger than she.

I also tend to put women on something of a pedestal, that a woman is more innately innocent and good (I'm a writer, and it's VERY rare that I create a woman character who is undeniably evil). I'm perfectly aware of the flaw in that reasoning, but that's my belief.

Brilliant!....couldn't have said it better myself.



I should clarify a point here, or more truthfully, correct a mistake I made earlier.
I am meaning women in front line, tip of the spear, combat roles.

Nurses, Intel operatives, drivers, transport pilots, administrative positions etc are a given, women can and do do a very good job in those roles, quite often better than a similarly trained man will do.

[LEADPIG]

Originally posted by Tigeress


BTW, I would probably be good at driving a tank or being a sniper or flying something like a chopper or warthog or a bomber.

Personally, I think I would get a lot of satisfaction out of driving a warthog... sending those ground SOBs to Hell.

A-10 vs. the bad guys--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ng8icQ7I4

TIGERESS

You probably would be. The fact is women can pull the trigger and operate the systems in any combat aircraft today, as well or better than men. There is also not the close living and combat aspect that involves fighting on the ground.

The russian snipers you all have mentioned is a more viable situation for women. As i understand it, snipers work alone and a alot of times detached from the main group and aren't usually involved on the ground when combat is occuring. They are usually interdicting or overseeing a battlefied providing area denying fire for troops, or reconaisance. Women could do that more i'd say because there is less interaction.

However would all that stuff thats been mentioned begin to effect combat and our outcome in a war. It probably would. In a perfectly equal world women should be allowed to fight. It's not however.

Like Drediock said nature seems to take it's course between men and women.

[FiLtH]

I think that in certain areas, man should have their thing, and women should have theirs. Woman get tougher, men get softer. Pretty soon evolution will kick in and one day I'll look down to find me willys gone!

[AGM65]

Personally I believe that all areas of combat should be open to women. Give them the details, the facts of what they will be doing, what they will face if captured, then let them  make their own choice.

[Thruster]

"If I were a US military academy career officer and a pilot, I'll be damned if I would stand for being discharged because of a pregnancy. I would take all the way to the Supreme Court, if necessary."

If you can't avoid getting knocked up when you have higher obligations, you should be summarily discharged.


Title 9 on the battlefield?

Really Tough Door?

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Never underestimate the ruthlessness of a woman.

Amen to that

Learned a long time ago never to trust anything that can bleed for 7 days and not die