Author Topic: La5 and LA7 (Read 9371 times)

Lusche · « **Reply #75 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:04:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
From a Berezin/Shvak discussion on these boards

In another discussion, it is stated as fact that the B-20 fires a round that is 4 times as effective as the Shvak's ammo.

That should settle that discussion.

A quote without a source from an unknown thread? naaa...

I just did a quick offline test. With both cannons I needed the same number of rounds to kill a hangar. Which is consistent with the real world fact that both use exact the same ammunition. No way of one being "4 times as effective"

Krusty · « **Reply #76 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:13:22 PM »

I've never been one to trust "kill a hangar" tests -- buildings and ground objects in this game don't react the same way that aircraft do with regards to lethality.

However, Both marks of hispano supposedly carry the same round, but one is noticably more powerful than the other just using the (again, IMO not fully accurate) kill-a-hangar method. You can't just assume that the damage is the same because the round is, because it's the gun that fires it, as much as it is the round itself.

AirFlyer · « **Reply #77 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:15:42 PM »

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Originally posted by Squire
"200 Niki's produced and it isn't perked."

My guess would be because its the only version available, and its not that unbalancing vs other rides, like the CHOG.

There were other N1K models. But as far as I know, they were all float-planes.

Karnak · « **Reply #78 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:17:45 PM »

The Hispano Mk II has a significantly longer barrel and a subsequently higher muzzle velosity when compared to the Hispano Mk V. 880m/sec compared to 840m/sec.

How do you think they saved the weight on the Mk V?

mg1942,

I've only seen one or two people suggest perking the La-7 and not just the three gun loadout.

Motherland,

Perk the 1943 Spitfire Mk VIII? You're nuts. Further, the Spitfire Mk XVI isn't even the most common fighter, nor is the La-7 or N1K2-J. Those three get the most whines, but the most common fighter usually gets off scott free, that is the P-51D.

Quote

Originally posted by AirFlyer
There were other N1K models. But as far as I know, they were all float-planes.

Negative. The N1K1 Kyofu "Rex" was a float plane fighter. I don't know how many were built offhand.

The N1K1-J Shiden "George" was the modification of the Kyofu to be a land based interceptor. In IJN terms the "N" on the begining of the letter string means it is a floatplane fighter. "J" means land based interceptor, as in the J2M3 Raiden "Jack". The "-J" on the N1K1-J and N1K2-J means it has been modified to be a land based interceptor. The N1K1-J retained the N1K1's midwing and had to have fragile landing gear that extended to be long enough to clear the prop from the ground, these failed frequently for a number of forseeable reasons given that Kawanishi was a second rate company and being hit by Japan's falling quality control. The N1K2-J was a major redesign that gave it a low wing and many, many fewer parts.

About 1000 N1K1-J Shiden "George" fighters were built and over 400 N1K2-J Shiden-Kai "George 21" fighters were built.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #79 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:19:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lusche
A quote without a source from an unknown thread? naaa...

Bit of a facetious post. The posts Krusty's referring to in past threads are his own, including the one I quoted.

Motherland · « **Reply #80 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:20:42 PM »

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Originally posted by Karnak

Motherland,

Perk the 1943 Spitfire Mk VIII? You're nuts.

Really? (clicky)
The only major difference between the Spixteen and the 8 are 2 M2HB .50 caliber MG's (so instead of just two laser guns, the 16 has 4). The only other difference is 5MpH and perhaps roll rate (due to the clipped wings of the sixteen).

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Further, the Spitfire Mk XVI isn't even the most common fighter, nor is the La-7 or N1K2-J. Those three get the most whines, but the most common fighter usually gets off scott free, that is the P-51D.

This is an undeniable truth. You point out an interesting fact though: 'it always gets off scott free'. There is an obvious reason for that. The Pony has an achilles heel that neither the La7 nor the Spixteen do, which would be low speed maneuverability (which can only be obtained through much experience with the model). Based soley on this fact it is not a very good candidate, at all, for a perk.

Lusche · « **Reply #81 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:23:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Motherland
Really? (clicky)
The only major difference between the Spixteen and the 8 are 2 M2HB .50 caliber MG's (so instead of just two laser guns, the 16 has 4). The only other difference is 5MpH and perhaps roll rate (due to the clipped wings of the sixteen).

Better fix yer link

Motherland · « **Reply #82 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:26:09 PM »

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Originally posted by Lusche
Better fix yer link

I suppose I should

Capitals screw it up. Thats odd (typed 'Spit8' and 'Spit16' instead of 'spit8' and 'spit16').

Karnak · « **Reply #83 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:30:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Motherland
Really? (clicky)
The only major difference between the Spixteen and the 8 are 2 M2HB .50 caliber MG's (so instead of just two laser guns, the 16 has 4). The only other difference is 5MpH and perhaps roll rate (due to the clipped wings of the sixteen).

The only reason they have similar performance is because the Spitfire Mk XVI does not have its proper +25lbs boost that a 1944 or 1945 Merlin 66 or Merlin 266 Spitfire should have. Thus it isn't the Mk VIII that is out of place as a 1943 fighter, it is the Mk XVI that is out of place being a 1944/45 fighter running at 1943 boost levels.

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Quote
Further, the Spitfire Mk XVI isn't even the most common fighter, nor is the La-7 or N1K2-J. Those three get the most whines, but the most common fighter usually gets off scott free, that is the P-51D.

This is an undeniable truth. You point out an interesting fact though: 'it always gets off scott free'. There is an obvious reason for that. The Pony has an achilles heel that neither the La7 nor the Spixteen do, which would be low speed maneuverability (which can only be obtained through much experience with the model). Based soley on this fact it is not a very good candidate, at all, for a perk. [/B]

However both the Spitfire Mk XVI and, even more so, N1K2-J do have exploitable weaknesses. The N1K2-J is a slow fighter and the Spitfire Mk XVI is only middling.

Motherland · « **Reply #84 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:38:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
The only reason they have similar performance is because the Spitfire Mk XVI does not have its proper +25lbs boost that a 1944 or 1945 Merlin 66 or Merlin 266 Spitfire should have. Thus it isn't the Mk VIII that is out of place as a 1943 fighter, it is the Mk XVI that is out of place being a 1944/45 fighter running at 1943 boost levels.

Then a proper Spixteen would undeniably have to be perked. The helicopter Spits are as bad as it is.

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However both the Spitfire Mk XVI and, even more so, N1K2-J do have exploitable weaknesses. The N1K2-J is a slow fighter and the Spitfire Mk XVI is only middling.

First off, Im not complaining about the Niki, as I dont see it as uber at all.
Second, I'd assume your talking about the fact that the Spixteen doesnt like high G's? Honestly, I dont fly Spit's at all, so I dont know how they fair in a highspeed fight (I cant fight at highspeeds in a 109... I dont have trim mapped on my stick after all

), the only downside I know of in that situation is that if you pull really hard the wings will come off.

1Boner · « **Reply #85 on:** February 06, 2008, 08:54:40 PM »

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Originally posted by Stang
Sounds like Boner has a crutch he can't fly without. Yeah, one more cannon doesn't make a difference at all...

You nailed that on the head Stang!!

I could have 6 cannons and it wouldn't make a difference against a guy like you.

You're awesome, the best (well cept for Skyrock)

God knows I need "da skills"

If I work real hard at it,(and I won't-got better things to do) maybe some day I will rule the skys in a D3.

Your favorite crutch wielding skilless LaLa dweeb,

Boner

Did I mention how awesome you are?

Karnak · « **Reply #86 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:15:39 PM »

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Originally posted by Motherland
Then a proper Spixteen would undeniably have to be perked. The helicopter Spits are as bad as it is.

Agreed, except for your stupid helicopter comment.

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First off, Im not complaining about the Niki, as I dont see it as uber at all.
Second, I'd assume your talking about the fact that the Spixteen doesnt like high G's? Honestly, I dont fly Spit's at all, so I dont know how they fair in a highspeed fight (I cant fight at highspeeds in a 109... I dont have trim mapped on my stick after all ), the only downside I know of in that situation is that if you pull really hard the wings will come off.

I am not just talking about your complaints. I see many people complain that the N1K2-J is a "helicopter" (just as stupidly as your comment about the Mk XVI) and demand it be perked.

No, I am not talking about the Spitfire Mk XVI's high G issue (does it even have one?), I am talking about the fact that it tops out at 344mph on the deck. Sure, it accelerates great from 200mph to 300mph and if you let it get your P-51/P-47/Fw190D-9/Typhoon/La-7/F4U down to that kind of speed it'll eat you alive, but if you keep the speed at 360+ and force him to blow his E on evasives that low speed acceleration doesn't do much more than keep him alive longer. Thus the Mk XVI has exploitable weaknesses, albeit a rather less severe and harder to exploit weakness than most fighters.

moot · « **Reply #87 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:27:11 PM »

Karnak the XVI hangs on its prop better than almost any other plane in the game. You can get it to fly as far beyond just about any other AH plane's envelope as vector thrust fighters can regular thruster engined planes.
It might not fly like a helicopter, but it certainly would easily be the one chosen if we had to pick which one most closely resembled that description.

Karnak · « **Reply #88 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:42:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Karnak the XVI hangs on its prop better than almost any other plane in the game. You can get it to fly as far beyond just about any other AH plane's envelope as vector thrust fighters can regular thruster engined planes.
It might not fly like a helicopter, but it certainly would easily be the one chosen if we had to pick which one most closely resembled that description.

4,700fpm is not even close to holding vertical. I don't even know if it could hold a 30 degree nose up attitude.

Thus, not a helicopter. That it is best at climbing does not make it at all a helicopter.

Would you call the Nieuport a helicopter in the context of WWI.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #89 on:** February 06, 2008, 09:45:10 PM »

I don't know that it's an "issue", but if you are careless with the XVI, you can rip both wings off easily. Like the Hurri, you can spike the accelerometer without any effect on the pilot, but tearing the wings off instantly.

I always thought the N1K and Ki-84 were more helo-like than the Spits.