South Osetia under attack

[gwano]

I wasn't going to dignify this statement with a rebuttal but I feel something needs to be said.

In 1939 Hitler's armies crossed into Poland and began the most devastating war our world has ever seen. Millions died on all sides, combatants and non-combatants alike.

Each Allied country put forth maximum effort to defeat the Nazi war machine. Great Britain and the Commonwealth Nations stood alone against Hitler's Third Reich for a time. The USSR suffered the heaviest casualties of all the Allied nations and paid the greatest price. America's great industrial power armed not only the American forces but also helped to arm many of the Allied nations as well.

Each Allied country, put forth effort according to it's strengths. Without that effort maixum effort from every Allied nation Hitler's Third Reich might not have been defeated. It took all of us to beat Hitler and his armies.

You will never see me belittle the USSR's efforts against Hitler, ever. Your attempt to belittle America's effort in World War II doesn't anger me. I simply find it disgusting.

Very well stated.

you can't reaaly blame Boroda for his position. he is simply a result of the soviet/KGB propaganda machine.
It took all sides to defeat germany in ww11. the current russians are just over blown windbags.

[Hangtime]

The USSR suffered the heaviest casualties of all the Allied nations and paid the greatest price.

A fate richly deserved for doing this:

The terms of the German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact were briefly as follows : the two countries agreed not to attack each other, either independently or in conjunction with other powers ; not to support any third power that might attack the other party to the pact ; to remain in consultation with each other upon questions touching their common interests ; not to join any group of powers directly or indirectly threatening one of the two parties ; to solve all differences between the two by negotiation or arbitration. The pact was to last for 10 years, with automatic extension for another 5 years unless either party gave notice to terminate it 1 year before its expiration.

To this public pact of non-aggression was appended a secret protocol (Aug. 23, 1939) dividing the whole of eastern Europe into German and Soviet spheres of influence. Poland east of the line formed by the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers would fall under the Soviet sphere of influence. The protocol also assigned Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland to the Soviet sphere of influence and, further, broached the subject of the separation of Bessarabia from Romania. A secret supplementary protocol (signed Sept. 28, 1939) clarified the Lithuanian borders. The Polish-German border was also determined, and Bessarabia was assigned to the Soviet sphere of influence. In a third secret protocol (signed Jan. 10, 1941, by Count Friedrich Werner von Schulenberg and Molotov), Germany renounced its claims to portions of Lithuania in return for Soviet payment of a sum agreed upon by the two countries.

The public German-Soviet Non-aggression Pact caused consternation in the capitals of Britain and France. After Germany invaded Poland from the west on Sept. 1, 1939, Soviet troops invaded Poland from the east on September 17, meeting the advancing Germans near Brest-Litovsk two days later. The partition of Poland was effected on September 29 ; at this time the dividing line between German and Soviet territory was changed in Germany's favour, being moved eastward to the Bug River (i.e., the current Polish-Soviet frontier). The Soviets soon afterward sought to consolidate their "sphere of influence" as a defensive barrier to renewed German aggression in the east. Accordingly, the Soviet Union attacked Finland on November 30 and forced it in March 1940 to yield the Isthmus of Carelia and make other concessions. The Baltic republics of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia were annexed by the Soviet Union and were organized as Soviet republics in August 1940. The Non-aggression Pact became a dead letter on June 22, 1941, when Nazi Germany, after having invaded much of western and central Europe, attacked the Soviet Union without warning in Operation Barbarossa.

If I was FDR or Churchill, I would have let Hitler have Uncle Joe's balls for breakfast.

[Elfie]

you can't reaaly blame Boroda for his position. he is simply a result of the soviet/KGB propaganda machine.

I can agree that he is a product of the Soviet/KGB propaganda machine. Otoh, it is HIS choice to continue to believe the propaganda lies he was taught instead of finding out the facts for himself.....his choice. It is a choice he has admitted he has made to retain his sanity.

[Elfie]

I would have let Hitler have Uncle Joe's balls for breakfast.

Patton wanted to fight the Russians, in fact he insisted that we would have to fight them sooner or later. The statement, Give me 10 days and I'll make it look like their fault, is attributed to Patton. I've often wondered how different the world might be today if the powers that be had removed Patton's leash.

[FrodeMk3]

Patton wanted to fight the Russians, in fact he insisted that we would have to fight them sooner or later. The statement, Give me 10 days and I'll make it look like their fault, is attributed to Patton. I've often wondered how different the world might be today if the powers that be had removed Patton's leash.

Keep an eye on the news. I've been seeing all kinds' of things since the cease-fire that are starting to look like there might be a round two pretty quick. The Russian's initially agreed to a cease fire when the U.S. started to demand they did; However, not a day or so after they quit advancing (By their account) Poland signed the missile deal. Well...when that happened, instead of withrawing back to their start lines' in Northern Ossetia as was outlined in the Cease-fire, the turned around and dug in and fortified the positions' they had taken in Georgia:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080817/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia;_ylt=Apgn0AZigcoaYT69kyBGwwJg.3QA

I'm wondering if this is some kind of attempt to get the U.S. to cancel the missile deal, since The poles' suddenly signed it through during this Georgian thing. I'm thinking that the signing blindsided Putin, who probably thought that Poland would have been scared away from the U.S. during this whole crisis. Instead, it backfired on him, and Round 2 actually goes' to the U.S.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

And did it help them in March 1940 when Red Army finally started to fight according to regulations and broke Mannerheim Line in a matter of hours, with Soviet tanks on the ice of Finnish Gulf attacking them from the rear and nothing to stop a single Soviet platoon on the road to Helsinky?

You guys are so proud for being severely masked up in Hawaii on Dec 7th 1941, it means you all suck big time, and everyone laughs at you for over 60 years now.

Umm those lines exist only (and I repeat) only in soviet history books. First of all soviet troops never advanced to the level of actual 'Mannerheim line' let alone break it. They did manouver on the sea ice west of Viipuri in an attempt to break supply lines to the front. From there they would have had an open road in theory to Helsinki, via land. The attack was stoped by the coastal artillery even though only a couple guns were operational. Finland was totally unprepared for war if you remember? Our naive politicians had cut all military funding for years in trust of russian good will. If tanks would have tried to approach Helsinki from sea ice they would have faced Suomenlinna fortifications with several bunkered anti-ship 150-300mm artillery that had the most advanced targeting system of the time. Similar weapons wreaked havoc during similar attack attempts near Viipuri. The tank / personnel colonies are sitting ducks on open flat ice which gets punched out by cannons. Few missed rounds too short and the ice is filled with 20m wide holes exposing 3c warm seawater.. FYI if a person drops in 3c warm water he has around 2 minutes to live even without anyone shooting at him.

Russian troops suffered horrible casualties when the leadership ordered them to mass attack on suicide missions like that over and over. That's why the casualty rates are the highest - something you should think about.

With your 10:1 superiority in numbers the original plan was to march to Helsinki in 2 weeks. That's why the first colonnies of invaders had parade gear and banners ready with them, later retrieved when the encirclered colonny was destroyed.

[Elfie]

I'm wondering if this is some kind of attempt to get the U.S. to cancel the missile deal,

If the reports of Russian units digging in is true, it very well could be. Although I can't see Bush selling out Poland after signing the deal.

[Yeager]

dont knock the guy!  boroda is the most insane fun this board has ever, or will ever, experience!

[Boroda]

Umm those lines exist only (and I repeat) only in soviet history books. First of all soviet troops never advanced to the level of actual 'Mannerheim line' let alone break it. They did manouver on the sea ice west of Viipuri in an attempt to break supply lines to the front. From there they would have had an open road in theory to Helsinki, via land. The attack was stoped by the coastal artillery even though only a couple guns were operational. Finland was totally unprepared for war if you remember? Our naive politicians had cut all military funding for years in trust of russian good will. If tanks would have tried to approach Helsinki from sea ice they would have faced Suomenlinna fortifications with several bunkered anti-ship 150-300mm artillery that had the most advanced targeting system of the time. Similar weapons wreaked havoc during similar attack attempts near Viipuri. The tank / personnel colonies are sitting ducks on open flat ice which gets punched out by cannons. Few missed rounds too short and the ice is filled with 20m wide holes exposing 3c warm seawater.. FYI if a person drops in 3c warm water he has around 2 minutes to live even without anyone shooting at him.

Russian troops suffered horrible casualties when the leadership ordered them to mass attack on suicide missions like that over and over. That's why the casualty rates are the highest - something you should think about.

With your 10:1 superiority in numbers the original plan was to march to Helsinki in 2 weeks. That's why the first colonnies of invaders had parade gear and banners ready with them, later retrieved when the encirclered colonny was destroyed.

So you say Mannerheim line wasn't broken!?

In March 1940 your stupid "parliament" sitting in a village on a Swedish border had to admit that all means of resistance are exausted and begged for peace.

It was a catastrophe, and your "democracy" dragged your poor country there.

[Boroda]

I told you Rich.

You can't handle the truth about your own country Boroda. I can handle the truth about mine and admit when mine has made mistakes.

Go to this link, you will see atrocities listed by both sides. I copy/pasted a couple from your country.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_axis.html#Germany

Absolutely hillarious answer. Nemmersdorf was arranged by SS for Goebbels propaganda. It's a well-known fact. The only 'known" documented fact of Soviet rapes

I understand your attention to the first-hand account rape book. Where do you keep it? With old Playboys? Can you still open it or all the pages are glued together? Or you have a hardcover special edition on washable paper?

Do you discuss it with your wife if you have any?

[33Vortex]

The victors write history, the losers remember it.

[Hangtime]

So you say Mannerheim line wasn't broken!?

In March 1940 your stupid "parliament" sitting in a village on a Swedish border had to admit that all means of resistance are exausted and begged for peace.

It was a catastrophe, and your "democracy" dragged your poor country there.

ROFL..

A little country, with a history of kicking your tulips every time you tried to invade, kicked your asses. Again.

And they did it without help from the west. They had Brewster Buffalo fighters... and even THEY tore your airforce up. Can you imagine? Buffalos established and retained air superiority! Finland was the only country that faced you down... was the only one that managed to NOT become absorbed into your stinking putrefied soviet empire and suffer rape, murder, looting. The Finns lost 25,000 men in that war... and the russians lost over a million. They didn't just kick your tulips Boroda... they crushed you.

<S!> The Finns! There's a sign just over the border there... "Welcome to Free Finland. Unless your Russian".

[Boroda]

ROFL..

A little country, with a history of kicking your tulips every time you tried to invade, kicked your asses. Again.

And they did it without help from the west. They had Brewster Buffalo fighters... and even THEY tore your airforce up. Can you imagine? Buffalos established and retained air superiority! Finland was the only country that faced you down... was the only one that managed to NOT become absorbed into your stinking putrefied soviet empire and suffer rape, murder, looting. The Finns lost 25,000 men in that war... and the russians lost over a million. They didn't just kick your tulips Boroda... they crushed you.

<S!> The Finns! There's a sign just over the border there... "Welcome to Free Finland. Unless your Russian".

Hang, you are hillarious. Finns kicked Soviet bellybutton and Americans won Vietnam war. Are you writing this from another dimesion?

[Angus]

The Finns kicked Soviet ass. They were invaded, and pushed the invaders back into USSR territory. But being outnumbered many times over it was hopeless as a war of attrition.
It is hard to find a better spanking in military history than what the Finns did to the USSR, and you should pause Boroda, and try to imagine what it would have looked like if the Finnish force had been like 10 times bigger.....

[Holden McGroin]

It was the USSR's glorious performance in Finland that convinced Hitler that Barbarossa would be a walk in the park.