Lose buff external view

[Tac]

uh-uh. You telling me the top turret of a lanc , 2X .303's shoots a fighter's wings out in a hi speed, hi angle , twisting fighter?

Not a fat chance in hell. Those guns ARE pumped up damage wise or convergence-wise. Something is mighty weird there. And it stinks.

[SKurj]

I have no problems whatsoever if buffs have external view, to me its logical.

A common defensive tactic of bf110, was to go into a defensive circle when attacked, so to me, the rudder control when gunning should stay too, tho perhaps an adjustment made to limit deflection in the heavier buffs.

SKurj

[Karnak]

Tac,

I nailed a P-51D's wing with my Lanc's top turret yesterday.  Probably hit the wing with a good 25-30 rounds. You know what happened?  Nada, zip, nothing.  That's what happened.

If a Lanc's top, or nose, turret can blow a fighters wing off when the fighter does a high speed slashing dive, I'd love to see it because, frankly, I don't believe it. I bet the twin 50s in the tail were involved as well as a good dose of luck on the part of the Lanc.

[ET]

As of 6:00 a.m.EST
      Killed Was Killed
B17    2412    3404
B26    1631    2675
C47     166    2183
JU88    230     939
AR234    17      57
Lanc   1033    2678
TBM3    292    1490
    Some thought should be given to toning down the lethality of the C47 and AR234.They are getting too many kills.

[popeye]

I think buffs should be harder to navigate, and harder to aim bombs, but keep the external view.

[Tac]

No prob Karnak, ill try and film every buff attack, you'll see the 1 ping of doom. BTW, im talking 38 here, ill try and get an F4U and P-51 and try it. It may be its the paper mache armour on the forkpork.

[AKSWulfe]

Audio doesn't directly represent the damage actually done.
-SW

[Fury]

I'd like external view removed at least in the CA.  While I understand the "multiple eyes" view mentioned earlier, I still think the unlimited F3 views you can get from each turret represents more information than you could get even with 15 people on board.  You can still see places you could not normally see even if you stuck your head thru the waist gunner windows at 150mph (not recommended).

Just my opinion from a buffer.

Fury

[MiG Eater]

From the CA, at least, the external view option

The ability in the MA for a pilot to exit the airplane yet still have full control over the direction, speed and all of the weapons is very "Nintendo."  Having the additional situational awareness of being able to see from the outside of the plane is a useful feature.  But I agree with some of the posts above that control of the airplane and guns should be made unavailable when outside of the aircraft in the F3 mode.

MiG

[Karnak]

Tac,

Yes the P-38 does seem excessively fragile, but I am still skeptical of peoples claims of losing major parts of the airframe to single .303 or 7.92mm hits.  I dumped a bunch of 7.92mm rounds from a Bf109G-2 into a fleeing P-38 and nothing happened.

I am interested in seeing the footage.  If you can get it from the bomber as well that would be "sehr gut".

Thanks.

[-ammo-]

IF you do not want to see Buff's flying around in the arena's, be it the MA or the CT, then by all means tone the buffs down, all the way around. Make it hard to hit fighters with the guns, amek it harder to bomb a target, make it harder to detect an attack (deletion of the F3 view). You can be assureed they will become less and less visible in the arena's.

Our strat system is not the best in the world, but if you downgrade the buff, then it will render it useless. we will have now use for strat, simply because it will be hard to flatten bases.

[ET]

AMMO,I agree 100% with you.I posted stats on the board earlier.Fighters are killing buffs at a rate of 2.32 to 1.The guys crying about lethality of buffs are just whiners looking for easy kills.The figures that showed that C47s shot down 166 planes and Arados shot down 17 planes,both planes having no guns, show that there is a lot of pilot error by people trying to shoot those two type of planes down.If the same pilot error %s were applied to the buffs with guns and subtracted from the total buff kills, the total kills of buffs to fighters would go down much lower than what it is now.The more experienced fighter pilots have no big problem with killing buffs and I believe most of them do not think a change is neccesary.Its only the guys who see a big fat cow in front of them and think they have an easy kill ahead of them who bring this same thread up constantly.I have not heard one buff complain about hitting some fighters
15-20 times and the fighter bores in and kills them anyway.Or complain about running into 2-3 fighters and know they are going to get killed no matter what they do.Thats the luck of the draw.I have been killed in one pass by an experienced pilot many times and I have also taken out three F4Us in a row from the same squad on one mission.Which one of them knew more about killing buffs ? I enjoy buffing the way it is now,and its not easy with the amount of enemy you run into.Your lucky to drop a bomb sometimes with the amount of enemy fighters and the high caps.If the whiners get their way,I'll abandon bombing completely and become a furballer.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by -ammo-:
IF you do not want to see Buff's flying around in the arena's, be it the MA or the CT, then by all means tone the buffs down, all the way around. Make it hard to hit fighters with the guns, amek it harder to bomb a target, make it harder to detect an attack (deletion of the F3 view). You can be assureed they will become less and less visible in the arena's.

Bear in mind that I did not advocate toning down the buff "all the way around."  I have no problems at all with a number of concessions made to gameplay.  In fact, I think they're good ones and totally necessary to keeping buff pilots happy and active.  The only change that I proposed was to eliminate the F3 external view in order to force buff pilots to check the skies by jumping to various gunner positions and scanning from there.  This also accurately simulates the fact that, say, B-26s did not have very good straight down visibility because the guns (and hence eyeballs) were unable to aim at that particular spot.

I'm not convinced that eliminating F3 would be a major blow to gameplay.  Let's face it... Panzers no longer have an external view, yet the tank commander should be able to pop out of the hatch and look all around.  I don't see ground vehicle drivers complaining about the lack of "realism" related to having to jump into the machine gunner spot to look around outside.

Think outside the box.  

-- Todd/DMF

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by ET:
The guys crying about lethality of buffs are just whiners looking for easy kills.

Oddly, this is exactly what I am not.  The notion that buffs should no longer be allowed to use the external view (and note that this was the only thing I advocated, not toning down lethality) came to me after a completely successfully B-17 run that resulted in three planes shot down and the vehicle hangar and a fight hangar destroyed.

I found the incredible situational awareness granted by F3 to be an insane advantage.  That's not to say that I wouldn't have shot the fighters down and had a successful run without it, but it surely would have been more of a challenge.  However, something just didn't seem right to me.

-- Todd/DMF

[GRUNHERZ]

Bomber pilots in AH are pusses they need every crutch imaginable in the world to do anything.

Laser and GPS guided bombs from 40k? Check!

roadkill 3D outside ARCADE flight mode?
Check!

roadkill CIWS defense guns with 3 times realiastic range and upgraded hit poer and perfect aiming and convergence?  Check!

roadkill roadkill roadkill! Thats all AH buff are.