Lose buff external view

[Urchin]

I honestly don't know ET.  All I know is I'm not one of em  .  Today I downed something like 3 or 4 B-17s and 2 or 3 B-26's, but I died 3 or 4 times as well.  

I remember the first death- it was actually the kind that really aggravates me.  My and another guy were headed towards a B-17, headon, from about 10K away.  As he closed with us (co-alt, BTW), I went to the right, in order to set up a pass from the side.  The other guy went right on towards the B-17, and they exchanged fire.  I turned back in so I was at a 90 degree angle (flying perpendicular) to the B17- but I misjudged my approach and I ended up passing about 600 yards behind him.  

So as I passed 600 or so yards behind him, flying perpendicular at about 350 mph, he hit me with one burst that removed my entire tail and wounded the pilot.  

I know it was what I'd consider a "snapshot" because he was still firing at my countrymate, who had flown right past him .

The other death that I remember was actually to the same guy (truker1).  I had switched to a 190a8 (had been in a 109G10).  I had already killed 2 B17s and 1 B26, and me and truker dueled for a little while.  To his utmost credit, he did NOT geekdance.  

I was about 1.5k from him (he was in a B26), and off to the right.  I had just made a pass on him that showed no apparent damage (I was out of 30mm by that time).  He made a hard turn into my pass, and kept turning.  I pulled around out of my pass and cut inside his turn, leaving me about 300 yards back on his dead 6.  That was a big mistake.  I opened fire first, hammering his right wing with my cannons and machineguns as he was still in his diving turn.  He switched to the tailgunner (pulling out of the diving turn) and started firing back.  I foolishly assumed that I would be able to blow his wing off with 2 cannons and 2 machineguns, from 300 yards before he would be able to kill me with his 4 machineguns (tail and top turret, or maybe just the tail).  Ehhh, no.  Those 50s shredded one wing, my tail, and the cockpit.  This is with what I would guess was maybe a 2 second burst.  My 4 second burst of machineguns and cannons caused a fuel leak, and knocked out his engine on the right wing.  

OH, and by the way- before you start with the "Everyone knows that you can't hit with MGs AND cannons at 300 yards" crap- guess again.  I can, and do, all the time.  I suppose you can say I'm a bad shot, but I'd say probably 75% of the rounds landed squarely on his right wing, which is where I was aiming.  

It just seems abnormal that a B-26 can take that much punishment, but the 190 was shredded by a 2 second burst by at the most, 4 .50s.  I'm not even certain that I was high enough that his top turret would have had a shot at me, so it may very well have been 2 .50s.

[GRUNHERZ]

Beufighter has 4 Hispanos right?

So 16 rounds of Hispano right?

What did the LW say the average number of MG151 hits was to kill a B17.

20 hits.


What did the LW say it took of 30mm hits.

3 hits.

I know B17s dont die to 3 hits of 30mm even if they are conventrated.

How much 151 and Hisapano dous it take in AH?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
3 hits.

I know B17s dont die to 3 hits of 30mm even if they are conventrated.

A long time ago in the TA, Nath and I actually tested how many 30mm rounds it took, on average, to destroy a B-17 from about 300 yards dead six.  I flew a B-17 while he parked straight off my six and carefully fired one after another of 30mm.

The result?  Almost universally, the B-17 sustained catastrophic damage after the third or fourth 30mm hit.  Wings came off, tails fell apart, elevators departed...

It's possible something's changed since then, either in 30mm lethality or buff toughness, but I don't recall HTC mentioning it.

-- Todd/DMF

[GRUNHERZ]

Ive not had the same experience, sorry to say, but nath is better pilot than I am.

For example just last night I came in under a B17, he never saw me. I only fired the 30mm cannon in my 109.

I got 5 hits right into the center underwing root area all close to each other with flashes that covered each other. Then I got about 3 other hits spreding from the center cention and out. The B17 took no damage and no fuel leak no oil leak, no smoke, nothing.

He died on my next pass only after I put in 4 more 30mm hit flashes into his tail.  

It was surprising.

[GRUNHERZ]

BTW im not at all saying that the AH 30mm is not a good gun for buffs, but just that my experience doesnt match that report. Thats all.

[Fester']

I'm for removing external view in buffs.

the effect on vehicles of having no external view has been positive and beneficial.

add to that it would increase the requests for gunners in buffs. a feature that is highly under utilized in ah

[ 08-26-2001: Message edited by: Fester' ]

[ET]

Urchin,I know a lot of strange things happen here.I have hit planes dead on my 6 between 15-20 times and I still get killed.Sometimes I think that people who live closer to the main computer get the benefit of their hits registering first and when my hits register,I am already dead.

[ET]

Fester,I tried running buff without external view a couple of times.Jumping from gun position to gun position to check for cons is to say the least,very tedious and boring.If they set up buffs without the external view,I doubt if many people would bother with taking them up very often.Yes,it can be done,but it is more like work than having fun in the game.

[Fury]

I'm probably in the minority here but I do the opposite of ET.  I only use the turret views and never use the outside views under normal conditions.  I guess my idea of fun is not the same as everyone else's (surprise  ) but any time I've tried using outside views because the guy gets out of my turret sight, I feel guilty as if I'm cheating.  I actually do have a lot of fun popping from turret to turret looking for the bad guys.

[Urchin]

I've actually got no problem with the external views.  Which is sort of surprising considering that is what the thread is about, I guess  .  I USE the external views when I'm flying a buff, and I actually use them almost exclusively when I'm not trying to fly in formation, bomb, or gun.  

What I do have a problem with is the pinpoint accuracy of bombing, from however high you care to fly.  The Zoom feature exacerbates this problem, and may very well be the only thing allowing people to take out targets smaller than the hangars from 25 or 30k.  

Actually, what I really have a problem with is the fact that bombers can fly up to 30k and higher and be invulnerable to interception, but I think that the fact that you can still bomb just as accurately from 30k as from 10k is a big reason why people will climb up there.

[SKurj]

Fester, how can one gunner hopping around the gun positions do the job of 8 guys scanning the sky?

Leave the external

SKurj