Hiding the Lockheed plant during WWII

[Enker]

Ugh, my brain hurts from reading the posts of Schlowy, however, I did not know about the hiding of the Lockheed plant in WWII. You would think we would learn about  cool stuff like this in school, but noooo, we learn about pretzels, war bonds, and victory gardens instead! : P
I cannot wait to get out of U.S. history and into other histories.

[Serenity]

Ugh, my brain hurts from reading the posts of Schlowy, however, I did not know about the hiding of the Lockheed plant in WWII. You would think we would learn about  cool stuff like this in school, but noooo, we learn about pretzels, war bonds, and victory gardens instead! : P
I cannot wait to get out of U.S. history and into other histories.

Take an AP U.S. History class. We might be nerds, but we're wildly entertaining nerds.

[Angus]

Yes, sure man, but its not like the japanese actually took Hawaii... why go half way?
Had they actually taken the place, that would have been a big time jumping off spot to the mainland, they may have even been able to capture some of those battleships or restore them. What if they had taken hawaii and taken our aircraft carriers intact? Maybe a reason to pack the car if they took hawaii.

Even still, Japan was all tied up in China, moving way to slow? Kicking their defenseless buts but still, there was alot of chinese then too, and lots of ground to take. Japans force was small again? Japan army mostly rifflemen walking? USA would have been able to put up a better defense than China for sure, westcoast just drive east if worst. Industrial capital of the world probly, only we were making cars?

There has been much speculation on whether or not USA gov knew pearl harbor was coming or not.
Had the Japans intended to actually take the island, and brought troops to do so, maybe more than only the USA carriers would have been out about and awake that Sunday morning?

First questioned probly asked:
Did the Japs take the islands? No
Did they sink all or stuff? No, their carriers didn't get our carriers.
Hence USA still had its carriers to bomb their carriers and stuff too.

Pearl Harbour was a very well planned raid, and aimed at the carriers. It was sheer luck that they had just left before the raid, as well as it was sheer clumsiness on US behalf getting just the BB's sunk in the first place.
It was a dicey raid, and not planned as a conquest. The whole thing was about absolute Naval superioriy.
I am not sure that the Japs would have packed enough power to take Pearl anyway, without leaving something else out....like the Philippines.
Small island with lots of defenders and guns....Iwo Jima would have been a joke compared to it.

[Enker]

I sure hope its better than a.p. world history... *blarf*

[Schlowy]

Angus, I'm impressed, you might just be smarter than the whole Japanese armed forces command in 1941. Why in the hell didn't they take Hawaii and try to not only deprive USA of all ships or carriers that may have been there, but also maybe capture the half of them intact? They should have taken Hawaii instead of the Philippines. Philippines was on their side of the globe, and it had no prizes to compare with a whole fleet.

Take Hawaii, AND capture the fleet... then maybe coastal USA mite have been really skeerd.

[morfiend]

    Charge,  Nice mossie link thx,if I ever build a boat I want it to look just like that!!

[Serenity]

I sure hope its better than a.p. world history... *blarf*

Probably is. We dont have AP world here, just APUSH. Its not just the class, its the students. AP and Honors students seem really uptight, always doing their homework, not drinking or smoking, etc. but theyre ****ing crazy! lol. Its just a different sense of humor, at least here. Fart jokes are replaced by space-time-continuum jokes.

[Redlegs]

Probably is. We dont have AP world here, just APUSH. Its not just the class, its the students. AP and Honors students seem really uptight, always doing their homework, not drinking or smoking, etc. but theyre ****ing crazy! lol. Its just a different sense of humor, at least here. Fart jokes are replaced by space-time-continuum jokes.

A lot different than my APUSH class.

[Serenity]

A lot different than my APUSH class.

Really? All of my higher level classes are like that. I guess we're just super-nerds or something then.

[Ack-Ack]

Angus, I'm impressed, you might just be smarter than the whole Japanese armed forces command in 1941. Why in the hell didn't they take Hawaii and try to not only deprive USA of all ships or carriers that may have been there, but also maybe capture the half of them intact? They should have taken Hawaii instead of the Philippines. Philippines was on their side of the globe, and it had no prizes to compare with a whole fleet.

Take Hawaii, AND capture the fleet... then maybe coastal USA mite have been really skeerd.

The Phillippines provided valuable resources and bases in which to defend the homeland.  Japan's intent was never to invade Hawaii, the plan was to destroy the US fleet and force the United States to the negotiating table.  The Japanese leaders actually believed that we would not go to war (due to the popular isolationist movement) and would negotiate a settlement that would allow Japan to retain it it's conquests in the East. 

Honestly, if you're going to debate a subject, do yourself a favor and at least try and educate yourself on it. 


ack-ack

[Schlowy]

Japan's intent was never to invade Hawaii, the plan was to destroy the US fleet and force the United States to the negotiating table.

Why in the hell didn't they take Hawaii and try to not only deprive USA of all ships or carriers that may have been there, but also maybe capture the half of them intact?

Take Hawaii, AND capture the fleet... then maybe coastal USA mite have been really skeerd.

AckAck, you seem Argu-Argu(mentative), second two quotes are same thing as first but an even bigger lever to 'force to the USA to negotiate.'

Except for this part:

Honestly, if you're going to debate a subject, do yourself a favor and at least try and educate yourself on it. 


ack-ack

Which seems like its only intent is to 'flame.' Do youself a favor and go check ROC.

[Rollins]

And he hits the tree again... 

[Coog03]

Great find Mr.Fink!

[MiloMorai]

Except for this part:Which seems like its only intent is to 'flame.' Do youself a favor and go check ROC.

Guess you should have read Rule 5.

5- Flamebaiting, trolling, or posting to incite or annoy is not allowed.

[Angus]

Angus, I'm impressed, you might just be smarter than the whole Japanese armed forces command in 1941. Why in the hell didn't they take Hawaii and try to not only deprive USA of all ships or carriers that may have been there, but also maybe capture the half of them intact? They should have taken Hawaii instead of the Philippines. Philippines was on their side of the globe, and it had no prizes to compare with a whole fleet.

Take Hawaii, AND capture the fleet... then maybe coastal USA mite have been really skeerd.

I have something in my favour....67 years of what happened after Pearl within easy grabs.
I mentioned IWO, where the USA took an island vastly smaller than Haway, with absolute naval and air as well as troop superiority, yet it was a very bloody victory. Chici Jima (SP?) which was a Japanese stronghold wasn't even tried, just bombed.
Haway was a US stronghold  with lots of potential, and very far from Japan. There is no way they could have done it IMHO, and YAmamoto's view of things will today hold scrutiny. He concluded that a war with the USA would not be won, - the only way would be to give the knockout in the first round, and for that Naval superiority was vital.
JApan needed to sink the US carriers and basically neutralize their naval power by that, since in his (correct) view, capital ships were obsolete in modern warfare against carrier groups. He concluded that Japan could not hold out to a continuing was against the USA. And he had studied in the USA..
so....read up schlowy