Spitfire wing tips

[MiloMorai]

Correct, but you can find Spitfire HF.Mk IXs with Merlin 70s (higher tuned than even the Merlin 61) with clipped wings.

That is interesting.

[Guppy35]

Thanks Dan. Knew you would be along, eventually.

For example, would it be safe to say if the a/c came with standard tips and the squadrons primary mission role changed to one of primarily low level missions the clipped tips might be installed?

Also do you have any numbers for Mk Vs, Mk IXs and Mk XVIs that came from the factory with clipped and standard tips.

Not sure on exact numbers.  I do believe the 16 production run was standardized with clipped wings.  You can find photos of 16s with full span, but they are few.

A good example of a squadron changing roles and changing wingtips would be 131 Squadron that was equipped with Spitfire VII.  Around D-Day time their job changed from high alt to medium alt and even ground attack in the Spit VII which was specialized for high alt with the pressure cockpit and extended wings.

Two photos, and there are many, of 131 squadron Spit VIIs after losing their pointed tips, and getting standard wingtips.  Some were even repainted in standard day camo, although not all were.

[Furball]

No.  Not a good idea.  This isnt a FPS shooter where we get to change clothing, etc.

Me thinks the clipping of the wings would have been done at the factory and not out in the field.  *shrugs*  IT certainly would not be done by a crewman with a few minutes notice to sramble for a misison, etc.

Replacing the wingtips was a far less time consuming job than a complete repaint, if your point is true, then maybe we should remove custom skins, bomb/rocket loadouts, armament options too?

[SmokinLoon]

Replacing the wingtips was a far less time consuming job than a complete repaint, if your point is true, then maybe we should remove custom skins, bomb/rocket loadouts, armament options too?

A bit sour are we?

My point was all about keeping the production models as they were and not to swap back and forth on minor tidbits such as slipped wings.  You want clipped wings, take the over-modelled Spit16. You want a more traditional Spit model... take the Spit8/9/5.  Your attempt to make swapping paint jobs in the same category as mechanically altering the plane doesnt really measure up due to the skins being unit specific, not plane or pilot specific.  Likewise, the ground grews were able to load ord (more ord = more time, obviously) as needed within minutes of being told.  Those same grounds crews did not simply remove wing tips upon command, those modifications came that way from the factory.

[RTHolmes]

Those same grounds crews did not simply remove wing tips upon command, those modifications came that way from the factory.

um yes they did - just a couple of bolts to undo, as mentioned earlier.

[leitwolf]

We already have those "minor tidbits".
If you pick a DT the racks alter the top speed for some planes. Weapon choice alter plane weight and handling. Both are hangar options. Same category as clipped wings imho.

[Furball]

A bit sour are we?

My point was all about keeping the production models as they were and not to swap back and forth on minor tidbits such as slipped wings.  You want clipped wings, take the over-modelled Spit16. You want a more traditional Spit model... take the Spit8/9/5.  Your attempt to make swapping paint jobs in the same category as mechanically altering the plane doesnt really measure up due to the skins being unit specific, not plane or pilot specific.  Likewise, the ground grews were able to load ord (more ord = more time, obviously) as needed within minutes of being told.  Those same grounds crews did not simply remove wing tips upon command, those modifications came that way from the factory.

Not at all, was just pointing out the flaws in your below argument: -

No.  Not a good idea.  This isnt a FPS shooter where we get to change clothing, etc.

Hence my skin comment (and it is time consuming to repaint an aircraft - see below).

Me thinks the clipping of the wings would have been done at the factory and not out in the field.  *shrugs*  IT certainly would not be done by a crewman with a few minutes notice to sramble for a misison, etc.

Perk option to remove wingtips on those aircraft which had them in service would make sense to me - more variants represented with minimal fuss.  But then of course there are all sorts of complexities with different rated engines etc.

We already have options which seem to be invalid by your own guidelines of 'a few minutes'.

[Karnak]

The reason we won't get this option is because it changes the flight model and the game engine is not set up to do that in that manner.

[SmokinLoon]

Not at all, was just pointing out the flaws in your below argument: -

Hence my skin comment (and it is time consuming to repaint an aircraft - see below).

Perk option to remove wingtips on those aircraft which had them in service would make sense to me - more variants represented with minimal fuss.  But then of course there are all sorts of complexities with different rated engines etc.

We already have options which seem to be invalid by your own guidelines of 'a few minutes'.

A "few minutes" is all that is needed to get ords, ammo, and fuel onto an aircraft in WII.  There is a reason ground crews didnt mess with "to have or not to have" wing tips, #1 they couldnt do it and #2 it was model specific from the factory.

Again... one isnt "painting" their aircraft prior to takeoff as they would having the ground crews load up the bombs, fuel, ammo, etc, they're choosing which unit to be in.  It is a completely different thing, 'tis you who has the flaw in the arguement, not I.  My reference regarding the FPS is the "flash-bang" approach some what to take towards this game.  I dont think we should be able to alter the mechanical make up of aircraft as you are suggesting, it didnt happen in WWII that is for sure. 

Having clight crews bolt on or unbolt the wing tips is not something the pilot could do.  It is no different then having an armorer swap out a 20in barrel for a 14/5in barrel on an M16 just before a soldier goes into a building to clear it out.  It doesnt fit this sim-game, maybe in some FPS, but not here.  Pick the plane you want as it is.  Each plane has a role (or multi-roles).  Sorry, but you cant put the tips back on your Spit16 for XYZ reason, guess you'll have to take the Spit8,9, or 14.   In case you have not noticed, HTC isnt about to perk some loadout and not others on a plane... they either perk or dont perk an entire plane.  So your option of partial perkin' isnt even a possibility.

I'm not sure what you're tollin' for... *shrugs*

[RTHolmes]

There is a reason ground crews didnt mess with "to have or not to have" wing tips, #1 they couldnt do it and #2 it was model specific from the factory.

etc.

noooo thats the point! it just required a couple of bolts to replace them - they were just wood afaik for standard and the weird extended tips, not sure about the caps.

http://spitfiresite.com/reference/variants-technology/2008/04/spitfire-wings-02.htm

there is kind of a precedent with the B25 glass nose/strafer variants, but its probably just a tweak too far. would make sense for LF variants to have clipped and the others standard tips (overall I think this would be accurate and give us options.) not sure which spits are LF in AH, I'm sure someone will chip in...

[Kev367th]

I asked HT about this some time ago.
The problem wasnt with allowing for the tips in the FM, they could be treated like ord in their effects on the FM.
I was also after being able to choose for eg a Merlin 61 or 70 for the IX, or a Merlin 45/46 or 55M for the V from the hanger, but this wasn't possible with the current game setup.

Smokinloom - The tips weren't model specific per se (all XVI were produced clipped, all FR XIVs were clipped although produced as full span F XIVs). The tips could be, and frequently were changed at squadron level, especially if their role changed.
HF VI, VII, VIII and IX typically had extended tips, yet often had the tips changed to full or clipped as the war progressed.
Yes the tips were changed by your common run of the mill 'erk', didn't have to go anywhere special for it.

If it could be added as a hanger option for common types then I say yes.

[Karnak]

SmokinLoon,

You keep saying that ground crews couldn't do it.  That is wrong.  It could be, and was, done at airfields.

Argue against it, fine, but use facts, not lies.

[Kev367th]

there is kind of a precedent with the B25 glass nose/strafer variants, but its probably just a tweak too far. would make sense for LF variants to have clipped and the others standard tips (overall I think this would be accurate and give us options.) not sure which spits are LF in AH, I'm sure someone will chip in...

Although not designated LF - The XVI is fitted with the low alt Merlin 266, and the VIII with the low alt Merlin 66.
Bear in mind the Merlin 266 was just an American built Merlin 66, so the XVI could also be designated as an LF IXe.

The V, IX and XIV are F versions.

[SmokinLoon]

SmokinLoon,

You keep saying that ground crews couldn't do it.  That is wrong.  It could be, and was, done at airfields.

Argue against it, fine, but use facts, not lies.

Lies?  *sigh*  Choose your wording a bit more carefully.  My stand is not a "lie".  If I am wrong, and am not, it is not because I am outright making a "lie".     

I'll stand my ground that the wing tips were not swapped on or off by ground crews like they did adding ord, loading ammo, or drop tanks.  If the *unit* changed roles then that is a different item altogether.  If the unit went from fighter role to ground attack role then sure, I can see where the planes were altered.  But from sortie to sortie... I'll bet it didnt happen.     

[Karnak]

I didn't say it was done like ord.  Many people here have described how it was done. You keep saying only at the factories when build despite having been told otherwise by people who know better.  Thus you are lying to make a point, I chose the word carefully.