Dueling: What shots do you take and what shots do you hold off on?

[Messiah]

What's a shane?

[Shane]

Strictly flying for the kill makes duels end by HO 1/2 the time and the other half it's more like a quick game of tic-tac-toe. Repetitive and not much fun.

yeeeeeeeeep....  that's one reason why dueling per se can get boring for me after a while.. it becomes fairly repetitive when it's "on" for the killshot. 

That's why I suggested to Grizz to mix up his merges instead of basically doing the same thing all the time... that's his relative fight/duel inexperience, not his skill.  I could easily have blown thru the merge and worked it as an e-fight and more than likely win in what he'd consider a "boring" manner - and he'd be right, sort of, but nooooo.. i do like to twist the la7 (or whatever) around... it only helps me get better.  I'm not quite back to my pre-break  fine-edge level... plus I no longer have the same intensity... 

[Shane]

What's a shane?

well, a shane isn't a messiah...   

[grizz441]

unless you secretly know moot and this is a troll........WTF are you talking about? Moot is class, one of the top sticks, widely respected for his flying and his character, generaly (Exactly)polite on the forums and speaks his honest opinion. This must be a troll! 

We had fun the other day dueling Grizz, though now i suspect it was more about you seeing if you could win and me just flying around trying to have a good fight. I thought you got it and were there for the fun of it, not the kudos.(Kudos from who? The fly on the wall?) If you want to test me to see how you handle my A game...well...just ask, and i will go searching for it, not sure i even know what my A game is myself, so long since i've needed to proove it in a duel.

I understand that you are sticking up for your buddy and yes we did have some very good fights the other day.  I said m00t trolls my posts and has made some general assumptions on how I duel or what I'm about IN the game.  My point is we have never fought or chatted in game which is about 90% of getting to know someone.  Nah mechanic, fighting with you that night was purely for fun and the challenge once I realized how skilled you were.  I had never heard of you before then anyways (i had to ask you for your forum name) but now recognize that you are one of the better sticks and you whipped my tail.  But you're right, I definitely was trying to win honorably.  Same flying against Ded, I was trying to win.  What does that have to do with the fun of it?  Or the integrity of it?  Pretty sure Dedalos hit the point home with his post.  And I'm also pretty sure Dedalos even though more skilled than me, was trying to whip me too.  Mechanic is it possible that me and Shane just had a rough night in there OR that I simply don't like m00t?  m00t isn't Jesus Christ, I can have my opinion of him without having his disciples defend him.  Concise point, I try to win when I duel in honorable fashion and have fun doing it.  If I get my butt whipped?  Well, still a lot of fun because I obviously got some good fights out of it. 

You mean crap like the string of whiney PMs I got from you? Like the absolutely retarded crap in the other thread, that I'm a lefty, defended glock, or other assorted nonsense?nope.I know what I see in your posts.

You mean my PM that I apologized to you for that?  And you responded by calling me a avacado?  Real classy.

Not only are you really not so good in the game to earn the right to smack pretty much everyone

As you would say, evidence? You + Shane doesn't = everyone
And as for my flying, again I say, get a computer that runs the game?  My computer is FIVE years old and runs it perfectly fine.  Until then, your comments about my flying ability are, well your name, moot.   

[grizz441]

That's why I suggested to Grizz to mix up his merges instead of basically doing the same thing all the time.

Meh, I did vary my speeds and my merges but nothing drastic.  My options are limited in a 38 vs La7 matchup.  I do have a bag of tricks in a plane that can turn but the 38 is limited.  The reason I was hard Ging as you put it was because the la7 can turn on a dime at merge speeds and I needed to get my plane around as sharp as I could so you didn't get a 1/2 or 1/4 shot on me on 2nd merge.  If I was fast or pulled a softer G turn into the second merge, usually I'd have to make you miss by knife edging my plane and then going vertical to try to stall you out, the 38's strong suit. 

[dedalos]

Key words in bold.. Good is subjective and 'to me' excludes the definition from applying to anyone but you.Well.. failed to end the fight asap, not necessarily failed to have fun.

Well, duh    Are you guys talking on behalf of everyone else or just stating your opinions?

[dedalos]

yeeeeeeeeep....  that's one reason why dueling per se can get boring for me after a while.. it becomes fairly repetitive when it's "on" for the killshot. 

That's why I suggested to Grizz to mix up his merges instead of basically doing the same thing all the time... that's his relative fight/duel inexperience, not his skill.  I could easily have blown thru the merge and worked it as an e-fight and more than likely win in what he'd consider a "boring" manner - and he'd be right, sort of, but nooooo.. i do like to twist the la7 (or whatever) around... it only helps me get better.  I'm not quite back to my pre-break  fine-edge level... plus I no longer have the same intensity... 

I am not arguing against a long fight.  Getting to the twisting and turning is good only if you made it there because of your ability.  Not because someone decided not to kill you when he could. 

This is more for Moot, but . . . No need to put someone down because he did not agree with you or a friend of yours.  I don;t play for the kill shot.  I love a twisting long fight, but only if it got to that point because of myne or your abilities.  Not because someone held fire.  If the goal is to learn, I want to learn how to make the bad guy get to that point.

Now, as I said earlier, lets stop pretending.  If this is about fun and teaching people, keep your mouths shot after the fight unless you are going to tell me what I did wrong.  I don;t need to know that you passed a shot, I don;t need to know that you were just experimenting, I don;t need to know that you were too fast, I don;t need to know that you were too slow, I don;t need to know you missed etc.  Especially when you are only riding in someone else's plane    That tells me one thing only.  I really was about the win 

[pervert]

batfink ate my hamster!!

[mechanic]

Ded, i never complain that i hold fire. The only thing you hear me ever say is that i didnt take the type of shot i was killed by. It's never a complaint. As to the reason why, i dunno, i geuss we just look at things completely differently.

I believe it comes from an over riding arrogance within myself, I dont have to take this weak shot because i i should be able to get your six in a few more turns/ Sometimes i can, sometimes i cant, but i never blame a person for taking shots even you and the 'i got guns on 1 second earlier so i can fire' no hos. whatever. just different folks for different strokes.


oh and us dueling the other day with shane, you make it sound like i lost and complained. i dont think i lost more than a couple and i dont think i complained.

this is a very good write-up, I try to kill my NME as fast as possible, and if they survive and we have a great twisting turning fight, then he is the worthy advasary, if its a "friendly" duel then it should be done in the TA, so you can merge and re merge till your hearts content.

in the MA i agree, in the DA with long term dueling partners you tend to search for something a little more worthwhile after the 10,000 fights just to kill.

[dedalos]

oh and us dueling the other day with shane, you make it sound like i lost and complained. i dont think i lost more than a couple and i dont think i complained.

See what I mean?  I never said you complained and I don;t think I was talking about anything you did or who won.  You see?  It is about the win after all.  So now in a true "AH Ace" form I should say that I was trying new things, was just flying for fun, did not take a shot?  You see my point?

You said that you will not take a weak shot because you think you can be on my six in a few turns.  Thats safe and easy to say.  However, if you notice on the posts here, the complains are always about the bad guy taking a weak shot while the good guy is cheating the turn (meaning that he turns early and exposes himself to fire in hopes that the other guy does not fire).  So really, what you said is not the issue.  You holding fire is not the issue.  The issue is that the other guy did not.
 
That translates to "I know I can get on your six in a few turns if you play nice and don;t kill me when I try to get an advantage".  This is what I want to learn Bat.  I want to learn how to get that advantage without having to rely on other guys kindness    This is why I don;t like it when someone holds fire or claims they did.

Now, if you learn how to fight like that, always depending on the bad guy to hold fire, how on earth could you possibly apply any of this in the MA?  I try to pretend that the fighting is as real as it gets.  Going merge after merge after merge ending up HO is not something I would want to do if I was in a real plane.  Collisions are not friendly and neither is the enemy. 

In any case  <S>  Non of this is personal right?  We are just talking

[dedalos]

I am not arguing against a long fight.  Getting to the twisting and turning is good only if you made it there because of your ability.  Not because someone decided not to kill you when he could. 

This is more for Moot, but . . . No need to put someone down because he did not agree with you or a friend of yours.  I don;t play for the kill shot.  I love a twisting long fight, but only if it got to that point because of myne or your abilities.  Not because someone held fire.  If the goal is to learn, I want to learn how to make the bad guy get to that point.

Now, as I said earlier, lets stop pretending.  If this is about fun and teaching people, keep your mouths shot after the fight unless you are going to tell me what I did wrong.  I don;t need to know that you passed a shot, I don;t need to know that you were just experimenting, I don;t need to know that you were too fast, I don;t need to know that you were too slow, I don;t need to know you missed etc.  Especially when you are only riding in someone else's plane    That tells me one thing only.  It really was about the win 

[SkyRock]

Seems I have been running into more E fighters in the DA lately.  I prefer the lets get it on aggressive duel.  

[dedalos]

Seems I have been running into more E fighters in the DA lately.  I prefer the lets get it on aggressive duel. 

Where have you been foo

[SkyRock]

Where have you been foo

Much work, and little play! 

I was in the DA the other evening with Bat and Rud3boi and hellbent and some others.
You in the DA much anymore?

[Shane]

See what I mean?  I never said you complained and I don;t think I was talking about anything you did or who won.  You see?  It is about the win after all.  So now in a true "AH Ace" form I should say that I was trying new things, was just flying for fun, did not take a shot?  You see my point?

You said that you will not take a weak shot because you think you can be on my six in a few turns.  Thats safe and easy to say.  However, if you notice on the posts here, the complains are always about the bad guy taking a weak shot while the good guy is cheating the turn (meaning that he turns early and exposes himself to fire in hopes that the other guy does not fire).  So really, what you said is not the issue.  You holding fire is not the issue.  The issue is that the other guy did not.
 
That translates to "I know I can get on your six in a few turns if you play nice and don;t kill me when I try to get an advantage".  This is what I want to learn Bat.  I want to learn how to get that advantage without having to rely on other guys kindness    This is why I don;t like it when someone holds fire or claims they did.

Now, if you learn how to fight like that, always depending on the bad guy to hold fire, how on earth could you possibly apply any of this in the MA?  I try to pretend that the fighting is as real as it gets.  Going merge after merge after merge ending up HO is not something I would want to do if I was in a real plane.  Collisions are not friendly and neither is the enemy. 

In any case  <S>  Non of this is personal right?  We are just talking

whoa there.. don't take a situation bewtween myself and grizz and try to apply a broader brush.  And in regards to "letting you know you messed up" - here's a film where you can see the "hold the kill shot" fun (outside of an arranged duel environment).  The first match up was la7 vs a 109g2 with someone who was learning the g2.  I later also went with a g2 w/gondies vs the g2 w/o and also held some shots.

http://www.speedyshare.com/714776134.html

The guy appreciated the fact I did what I did, even tho I was not too far from A2 (Rook FurBlake base) and could have taken the shots presented with minimal time to return for him... but I didn't.  It really all depends on what you're looking for.

I can dig up some films in which  you'll see just how I weasel out of guns solutions and end up with a great reversal advantage... by holding into the guy and rolling out of their guns solution, without regards of the risk of ram/ho (trusting my timing) - totally differently than a "friendly-type" of duel.  But do I really need to do this?

Now... the way grizz repeatedly got me was me not doing what I can normally do.  And I explained why. <shrug>