Author Topic: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off  (Read 3145 times)

Offline moot

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2009, 02:18:47 PM »
Now you see what I mean?  And SmokinLoon's argument does not apply here because what he suggests is not part of the model (realistic misfires on impact), not the issue (my attitude), and not a solution (ignoring the problem).
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2009, 02:30:28 PM »
Can packet loss get to the point it's so bad that some hits are lost? 

Hit packets can be delayed but never lost.
Once again read what I said, every hit sprite of a 30mm causes damage just like any other bullet.

How much damage depends on range/speed and where hit on the plane.

For a bullet not to do damage to a plane after a hit sprite 1 of 2 things would have to happen.

1. The shooter gets discoed.
2. The shootie gets discoed.

Other than that there could only be a  delay in the damage do to droped packets, but those droped packets will arive, and nothing else on that channel including text messages and lots of other stuff can arive can arive until the hit message does.

Is basic TCP networking things must arive at the procedure in the order sent and can not be lost with out the entire connection being lost.

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Offline Cthulhu

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2009, 02:42:09 PM »
Now you see what I mean?  And SmokinLoon's argument does not apply here because what he suggests is not part of the model (realistic misfires on impact), not the issue (my attitude), and not a solution (ignoring the problem).
Loon's argument was regarding real world behavior, where anything can and will happen. In that context I still agree with him. However, if damage in AH is modeled as simply as you guys say, and I have no reason to doubt that it is, then this is bullsh*t.

What attitude moot? :)

Hit packets can be delayed but never lost.
Once again read what I said, every hit sprite of a 30mm causes damage just like any other bullet.

How much damage depends on range/speed and where hit on the plane.

For a bullet not to do damage to a plane after a hit sprite 1 of 2 things would have to happen.

1. The shooter gets discoed.
2. The shootie gets discoed.

Other than that there could only be a  delay in the damage do to droped packets, but those droped packets will arive, and nothing else on that channel including text messages and lots of other stuff can arive can arive until the hit message does.

Is basic TCP networking things must arive at the procedure in the order sent and can not be lost with out the entire connection being lost.

HiTech
I wonder if the same applies to UDP. Although faster, UDP doesn't offer the inherent hand-shaking of TCP.

Then again, think how much it would suck to disco just before the 75mm from your B-25H tags that 262 that just blew by you. :(
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 02:44:23 PM by Cthulhu »
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Offline Bronk

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2009, 03:14:46 PM »
:rofl

(Image removed from quote.)
Yea... IIRC The round was suspended inside and then detonated. Not exactly combat conditions. But I agree there is something to be investigated with the 30mm+ rounds.
I say this because Ive torn off mustang wings with one trigger pull from a hurri D...  and that is AP.
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Offline moot

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2009, 03:29:03 PM »
Murdr I'm pretty sure the spit16 walked off with a fuel leak.
Cthulhu, that's what the DM is like as far as I know. I've never seen the devlog on it and would be glad to have a clear correction/understanding of it.
Bronk, there's a MK108 trial video out there, where you see a hit on a static (mossie?) RAF fighter's wing.  The explosion isn't as gory as the above pic, but it's almost as effective.  The bullet comes in from dead six or so, and makes a big crater.   ...   http://youtube.com/watch?v=nPWlYhfhLrI
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 03:34:51 PM by moot »
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Offline Stang

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2009, 03:35:51 PM »
I remember that post, thanks for putting it up Murdr.  It still is curious though, how can a spitfire survive a 30mm impact if that is true?  Even more curious are the instances of shooting fighters only using the 37mm cannon in the P39Q and having the same no effect from the hit. 

If it's not packet loss there has to be something else going on to cause it.  It's not a huge deal as it doesn't happen very often, but like moot I've always been bugged by it.

Offline Cthulhu

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2009, 03:44:11 PM »
I'd like to get some clarification on the behavior of UDP "hit packets". As I understand UDP, the packets are simply bundled off to the server with no verification (response from the server) that they ever arrived. (unlike TCP with it's "I sent something, did you get it?"... "No I didn't"... "Ok, I'll send it again" behavior.) I'm hardly a network guy, but this does have me wondering. Could UDP packet loss (server to victim) conceivably allow only the shooter to see the hit?
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Offline moot

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2009, 03:52:11 PM »
I was in TCP, no doubt about that.. I looked at the film again and there's a 20mm hit right around the firewall section of the fuselage. Could this have damaged one of the fuel tanks?  Otherwise there's definitely damage recorded from the 30mm.
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2009, 04:09:45 PM »
I'd like to get some clarification on the behavior of UDP "hit packets". As I understand UDP, the packets are simply bundled off to the server with no verification (response from the server) that they ever arrived. (unlike TCP with it's "I sent something, did you get it?"... "No I didn't"... "Ok, I'll send it again" behavior.) I'm hardly a network guy, but this does have me wondering. Could UDP packet loss (server to victim) conceivably allow only the shooter to see the hit?

I'm pretty sure that both protocols are normally running during game play.  That is why you can be flying and observe other players maneuvering (UDP for location/speed/heading/status data of players) without seeing any warps, while simultaniously text may lag by several seconds (TCP for text/hit packets/other data).  This is most pronounced when a "won the war" happens, and all text and damage may lag for several seconds.

Offline Delirium

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2009, 04:10:10 PM »
As for 30mm hits, this is the one where he didn't even take damage:

Unless that was AH1, you didn't hit him with the 30mm, the hit sprite is all wrong.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2009, 04:12:50 PM »
Unless that was AH1, you didn't hit him with the 30mm, the hit sprite is all wrong.

Watch the film.  I only fired 30mm.  In fact, you can see the hub gun firing in the screen shot.
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Offline Delirium

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2009, 04:13:49 PM »
I have a film hitting a Ki84 with 2 taters; one killed his engine and the other removed his rudder and 1 aileron.

I'd post the film but the HD with all my films is dead.  :cry
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Offline Delirium

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2009, 04:14:40 PM »
Watch the film.  I only fired 30mm.  In fact, you can see the hub gun firing in the screen shot.

Why is it showing the non tater hit sprite?
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2009, 04:17:09 PM »
Why is it showing the non tater hit sprite?

I don't know. :noid
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Offline moot

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Re: Spit16 takes tater in wing near root, shrugs it off
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2009, 04:56:16 PM »
I was in TCP, no doubt about that..
Meant to say i was in regular mode, not the backup one you get with an orange message.
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