Wing Option for squad's

[FALCONWING]

You realize that you contradict yourself repeatedly throughout this thread, right?

ACM is gamey, but you train your guys 1v1, 2v2 and 5v5... What are you training them to do? You see, this goes back to my point that you can't admit that ACM training is essential.  I said taking ACM to the academic level and out of the fun level is gamey...correct...to me you are like the guy from the Leroy Jenkins u-tube who calculates their rate of success at x.x%...  over the top for me...takes away from fun and makes it work

AH2 is an air combat game. Base captures are not the ultimate goal. The ability to capture exists as a means to facilitate air combat. You prefer to sneak in, avoiding air combat (or at least that where you cannot gang the few defenders). Let me know if I stray off the truth, okay?Depends on what we are up to...everynight is different...a beauty of this game You discourage your squad members from getting training from anyone but you, correct? where do you get this drivel from bud??? why would i "forbid" folks from getting trained?  you are making stuff up againI mean, being good at something is useless, right?being the best virtual pilot wins you...um nothing..correct You don't want to spend additional time to train and build skills as you are too busy leading the "uber life", whatever the hell that means, correct? I would say AH is a fun game that involves killing using ww2 vehicles and planes instead of using spaceships/goblins/etc....for some of us it is a means of relaxation (an alternative to going to a bar etc) there are many ways to have fun and for me and my guys goofing on vox while accomplishing something is fun.  In AH you can either run up kills or take bases...we do a bit of both...there is no glory in being the top 5% of base capturers or acm kings...as with everything in life it is a balance between the amount of time invested and how much success you wish to have.  I currently prefer to be in the MA over the TA or DA...other guys prefer the opposite...i could care less.  12 years ago when i began in AWC I preferred the ACM side but after a few years at some point it felt like work and the fun began to leave...so i chose to be good at most things...(except buffing...no offense ot buff drivers i just dont have the patience or time) and focus on the virtual "hanging out" that gives me a break and is fun

Have you asked your guys if they might want some formal training (not your kind, our kind)? I've offered to gather trainers and DFC members to work with your people to build useful and essential skills. You refuse.... Why?where did i refuse?  I have never interacted with you except in this thread? granted i'm not a big fan of yours right now due to your conduct but if we had a chance to work things out I'm sure it would be fun if they WANTED to do it.  Last time i checked anyone can go to the TA.  You seem to think i control my guys???  Thats not the way our squad works... Maybe you should hang out with us some and understand how we function...that may open your eyes We don't send a bill. neither do we

A leader looks out for the welfare of those under him. He strives to provide the best means for them to grow and excel. He places emphasis on continuous improvement. He leads by example. He doesn't draw attention to himself. <---- When you are doing this stuff, you're a leader.if guys arent having fun they will leave...my guys are having fun...once again im confused as to how i have control over others...i am the C.O. of a squad who does certan things...guys who like it join...if they don't they leave...when i stop having fun ...i'll leave...fairly simple really.

My regards,

Widewing

Look I guess you are trying to offer a peacepipe with the training thing and i'll pass it on to the guys...I'm sure we all can learn something new all the time.  I don't buy into this game like you do...I grew up air force....My granddad was a major in the us 8th air force and flew b17s in ww2 (their is a tribute to him on the BoP website)....my dad flew phantoms in vietnam...My uncle flew air force 2 when reagan was president so he flew bush around.  I flew in c130s and space A all over europe.  Until I found out as a senior in high school that i had muscular dystrophy, I was slated for the Air Force Academy...already had the senators recommendation and just had to pass the physical...I couldn't.

This is not real flying.  It is VIRTUAL flying.  It is as close as I will get...granted.  But you cant even judge and control speeds well enough to easily formation fly in here...what you are pushing on folks to learn is all about  gaming the computer modeling  (ie. you are teaching them to become great VIRTUAL pilots)...it doesnt truly mimic REAL air combat (no offense to HTC because it is as good as it gets and I love it) but TRY and understand why a rationale person may not want to commit alot of time to become great at what is still just a video game.  Everyone wants to be good enough to have fun...try to accept that for most that is enough.  As a parallel try to imagine something that you do for fun..golf, tennis etc.  I guess you can get trainers and go to clinics and become uber at that but the majority like to smoke cigars and hang with their friends while doing something.  The 900+ on each night who aren't going into the TA must feel competent enough to have fun for what spare time they can spare from their day.

[FALCONWING]

Your own words:
You're the "button pusher" here.  This is how you entered this discussion:
My advise is to stop digging.

So the fact that ACM taken to the extreme is gamey....means i refuse to let them learn ACM???  Again you are trying very hard to take my words to an extreme noone would.  If you wish to apologize and try a different tactic I would be welcome to it...til then please stop addressing me....I have not found our interactions to be positive at all

[Murdr]

So the fact that ACM taken to the extreme is gamey....means i refuse to let them learn ACM???  Again you are trying very hard to take my words to an extreme noone would.  If you wish to apologize and try a different tactic I would be welcome to it...til then please stop addressing me....I have not found our interactions to be positive at all

Again, you said:

Some of us "grew up" a decade ago and realized that ACM is a gamey concept at best

Now if you want to revise and extend your remarks, by all means. 

I didn't say you "refuse" to let anybody learn anything.  You're negative comments about ACM and skill in this thread are pretty clear.  It's not much of a leap to assume that the apperent attitude would somehow come across in you leadership. 

Here are some gems from you recent posts "crybabies and idiots"(first post in this thread)"tool and lying"(to widewing) "whining corp and true dweebs"(the trainers) "anklehumped by a proud pothead"(bongaroo) "anklehumper"(me)...and you want an apology?
hmmm...um NO.  And I also believe I will decline your request to shut up.

[BiPoLaR]

i like turtles!!!!!

and DFC members are secksay!!!!!!!!

[DiabloTX]

LAWLZ...

Freaking epic.

[WMLute]

I am pretty sure everybody knows which side of this argument I am on.

Everything that I would say about this subject has allready been said (many times) but there is one thing I would like to chime in on.

Please bear with me here...

There was a time in the past where I allowed a few players to get under my skin.  It took years, but eventually my opinion of them was so tainted that I made it a point to try and ruin their fun.  I went out of my way (at times) to make sure that if I could I would rain on their parade and spoil their enjoyment.

During a huge drama last year I ended up giving that, and my actions, a lot of thought.  I pondered it for a few days and decided that I needed to walk away from the situation.  When I realized what I was doing and what I had become I felt that separating myself from it all was the best choice.  I was so torn from my walking out on something I cherished so much that I made a few more bad choices out of sideways anger/frustration.  (As most of y'all know I am far from being a fully actualized human being, but I do try)

I have had some time to reflect on it all, and I can now say I was 100% wrong and out of line in my attitude and behaviour towards these select players, and my leaving was the best thing I could have done.  I should never had allowed my own personal standards and ethics to be lowered no matter that I thought I was doing the "right thing" at the time.  For a person that was in the position of responsibility that I was in, this never ever should have been allowed to occur.

I regret all that had happened and if those players read this post, please accept a heartfelt apology if you ever felt that I was "out to get you" or that I in some way impeded on your fun.  It was not my place to do so, I was out of line, and I am very sorry.

I hope they continue to enjoy this game we all love so much, and I wish them the best.

That really is the bottom line isn't it?  Enjoyment?

When all is said and done this game/hobby is about everybody having fun. 

Be you a two weeker or a multi-decade flying pilot, we are all here to enjoy ourself and have a good time.  We would not be here if we didn't enjoy this game, so right there we have something in common.  We should focus on the similarities and not the differences.

Not everybody has fun in the same way.  We will not all enjoy the same things.  (I for one have never been that keen on flying a bomber, but many love doing just that)  But we all agree that we enjoy "playing airplane" (as a lady I know calls my flying AH) and I think we should strive to strengthen the commonalities and not focus on the differences.

There is a middle ground to it all, and we but have to strive to find it.

I have a great amount of respect for many of the posters in this thread.  It is my hope they decide to take the higher ground and they do not fall into the same pitfalls that I did. 



(and might I add that believe it or not, the people that have been arguing in this thread are a lot more alike than they want to admit, and hold many of the same opinions)

[Delirium]

Murdr and Widewing, I may not be in the DFC anymore but I am more than willing to assist you if Falcn decides to put up a group to dogfight. Just one of you could take on Falcn's whole squad with 1 elevator, 1 stuck flap (halfway down), 1 aileron and no rudder and he'd still not be willing to see any point but his own.

Until HTC institutes zone ENY, the big squads are here to stay. I hope zone eny does come, it will make the whines from the gang banging map rollers rise to a crescendo that could drown out Times Square on New Years Eve.

As I've said in the past, whatever you want to do (Furball, take bases, GV, buff, or a mix of all the above) just be good at what you do. No one needs a squad that large...

[VonMessa]

Murdr and Widewing, I may not be in the DFC anymore but I am more than willing to assist you if Falcn decides to put up a group to dogfight. Just one of you could take on Falcn's whole squad with 1 elevator, 1 stuck flap (halfway down), 1 aileron and no rudder and he'd still not be willing to see any point but his own.

Until HTC institutes zone ENY, the big squads are here to stay. I hope zone eny does come, it will make the whines from the gang banging map rollers rise to a crescendo that could drown out Times Square on New Years Eve.

As I've said in the past, whatever you want to do (Furball, take bases, GV, buff, or a mix of all the above) just be good at what you do. No one needs a squad that large...

Are you saying that size doesn't matter?       

[dashed]

Guess I'm just dense and confused.

Don't all of us, or at least the great majority, pay $20 a month to be here?

Don't we all agree to play by the rules as defined by HTC?

Don't we all accept that those rules, as loose as they may or may not be, constitute "fair"?

Now, my confusion:  Who am I, or anyone else, to decide what is the "Right" interpretation of those rules?  I find it difficult enough to define right from wrong for myself, let alone others.  If someone says furballs are wrong, and there are enough people on that agree, he can find his type fight.  If one wishes to only fight those of his own "quality", then he is stating the difference to be clear enough to be identifiable, and thus to find those of his own kind to play with.

Obviously I could go on for pages in this logical progression, but needn't.  The bottom line is AH is here for all of us.  The only thing I consider wrong (if within the rules of HTC), is the aggressive, personalized attacks on others by those most loudly asserting the requirements of honor and respect.  The CH 200 snipping, whining, insults and all that are one thing, but for those of us, who consider ourselves to have thoughtful ideas that should be expressed here, to stoop to those levels is an insult to what we supposedly stand for.

Again, as in my first post, if it weren't for all the people and styles of play attracted to AH we wouldn't have a place to be so silly in.  Differences of opinion are fine, even great, but personal attacks are not only useless, but damaging to the game so many enjoy.

I don't "own" it, you don't own it,
Wether truth, honor, integrity.

Dashe

[skullman]

well said Dashe

[humble]

Dashe,

The underlying problem is in the evolution (or devolution as the case may be) of the game play. Underneath it all lies a very simple truth, the original "intent" was a recreation of WW2 era air combat. This predates AH and is constant during the development of the entire genre. This is not a value statement toward any particular style of combat...simply the recognition of combat as a primary goal. As skills evolved the entire focus was seeking challenging combat.

This has changed drastically over the last 2-3 years. Just a look at the LWA map at almost anytime will show unbalanced play on all 3 sides as the game focus has moved away from its historical roots. I'm not going to blame any one person or side but will use falconwing since he's "here" in this thread. 1st and foremost he was never really recognized as being a "good stick", either here or back in AW, all his posturing is just that. While its unfair to trash any group of 100+ its hard to find more then a few quality sticks in the BOP. Basically all three countries have similar cadre's and its unfair to label one side however collectively they have dropped the overall quality of game play IMO.

So the underlying truth is simple. Quantity over quality is becoming the winning equation in the LWA (and even in the MWA at times). As for the DFC vs BOP...wont ever happen. Falcon is bombastic not stupid...

[waystin2]

Is it not HTC that has shaped the AH world that exists today?  They provided the means for all of the things that some folks constantly gripe about to exist.  It appears that there is a small vocal group here on the boards with the assumption that if there are more than X amount of folks affiliated then they are unhealthy for the game.  No one has yet to address the fact that even though there are affiliated groups of 32 man squads, not all members are on at the same time.  I think the hordes that are being griped about are mostly the result of planned missions and not a single squad.  There needs to be some documentation, not just hearsay.  To blame your unhappiness with AH on anything other than yourself is silly.

Quality over quantity?  I am not sure where this came from, but it's basic assumption is absolutely wrong.  I do not think the two are mutually exclusive.  It is possible to have both.  I feel that I have both in my own squad.  Who are some of you to decide how well I know or need to know my own squad mates?  A weak argument at best gentleman.

I know the roots of this game were in WWII Aerial combat, and it will always be integral to the success of the game.  If folks take a look at the front web page, they will see that HTC has moved this away from a strictly dogfighting game.  It is now the Premier World War II Combat Experience (see graphic below).  Well that encompasses a heck of a lot more than just good 1 v 1 aerial fights.  Which by the way, I love just as much as the next pilot.  Unfortunately a lot of folks are relating their inability to create or find a good fight is because of someone else's poor gameplay or lack of skills. The players are operating within the framework of what is provided by the game creator.  I highly encourage you all to see what you can change in your approach to the game so it becomes enjoyable for you again.  To expect others to do it your way, just is not going to happen.  The only consistent thing in life is change.  Well Aces High is changing on a daily basis.  You can roll with it, or you can fight it.  In the end, change will win.


<Salute>
Way

[Roscoroo]

So the fact that ACM taken to the extreme is gamey....means i refuse to let them learn ACM???  Again you are trying very hard to take my words to an extreme noone would.  If you wish to apologize and try a different tactic I would be welcome to it...til then please stop addressing me....I have not found our interactions to be positive at all

Well thats THREE major counterdictions  so far in this thread .

I think Its time for Falconwing to go back to the minor's (or quake) . I find his posts detrimental ,and his leadership quality is very poorly based .   

A person with Real leadership quality's would also promote wellness of the arena's (All of them) , sponser Training and advancement thru All aspects of the game (Dogfighting, Bombing,attack/jabo, ground vehicles, ship warfare ,ACM, Events and special types of the game ... and now last but not least the very reason most of us are here.    "For Our Love and Respect of History surrounding World War 2

Do you have any one in that huge mega squad Teaches History ???

Widewing (whom you have singled out) Is a History major and has devoted many hours to training and teaching here (For Free) . I should get college credits for how much he taught me while we were in the =Ghosts=  . <S>

[FALCONWING]

I am pretty sure everybody knows which side of this argument I am on.

Everything that I would say about this subject has allready been said (many times) but there is one thing I would like to chime in on.

Please bear with me here...

There was a time in the past where I allowed a few players to get under my skin.  It took years, but eventually my opinion of them was so tainted that I made it a point to try and ruin their fun.  I went out of my way (at times) to make sure that if I could I would rain on their parade and spoil their enjoyment.

During a huge drama last year I ended up giving that, and my actions, a lot of thought.  I pondered it for a few days and decided that I needed to walk away from the situation.  When I realized what I was doing and what I had become I felt that separating myself from it all was the best choice.  I was so torn from my walking out on something I cherished so much that I made a few more bad choices out of sideways anger/frustration.  (As most of y'all know I am far from being a fully actualized human being, but I do try)

I have had some time to reflect on it all, and I can now say I was 100% wrong and out of line in my attitude and behaviour towards these select players, and my leaving was the best thing I could have done.  I should never had allowed my own personal standards and ethics to be lowered no matter that I thought I was doing the "right thing" at the time.  For a person that was in the position of responsibility that I was in, this never ever should have been allowed to occur.

I regret all that had happened and if those players read this post, please accept a heartfelt apology if you ever felt that I was "out to get you" or that I in some way impeded on your fun.  It was not my place to do so, I was out of line, and I am very sorry.

I hope they continue to enjoy this game we all love so much, and I wish them the best.

That really is the bottom line isn't it?  Enjoyment?

When all is said and done this game/hobby is about everybody having fun. 

Be you a two weeker or a multi-decade flying pilot, we are all here to enjoy ourself and have a good time.  We would not be here if we didn't enjoy this game, so right there we have something in common.  We should focus on the similarities and not the differences.

Not everybody has fun in the same way.  We will not all enjoy the same things.  (I for one have never been that keen on flying a bomber, but many love doing just that)  But we all agree that we enjoy "playing airplane" (as a lady I know calls my flying AH) and I think we should strive to strengthen the commonalities and not focus on the differences.

There is a middle ground to it all, and we but have to strive to find it.

I have a great amount of respect for many of the posters in this thread.  It is my hope they decide to take the higher ground and they do not fall into the same pitfalls that I did. 



(and might I add that believe it or not, the people that have been arguing in this thread are a lot more alike than they want to admit, and hold many of the same opinions)

WmLute     I agree with you wholeheartedly even though we differ often on opinions...

My family became a Wii family this Christmas...it has been great fun playing Wii tennis etc.  The Wii approximates tennis better then a joystick etc but the bottom line is it really doesn't come close to real tennis...now for someone with a handicap or an elderly perons it is probably a great way to compete and have fun.  there are all sorts of little tricks you can do (wrist flicking, body position etc) to get better and better shots and serves.  We have fun with it.  Now could we read the tip pages and become uber Wii tennis players and host tournaments and invite friends over and etc but jeez we are having fun muddling through it...laughing alot along the way...

Now suppose some guy came over and he had "mastered" the Wii tennis and was destroying all of us because he had learned all the little tricks and techniques...cool i guess...but what if he then began belittling our "skill" because we didn't feel the need to do the same and get power serves every shot etc....well that would be the last time we would want to have him over.  I would feel he missed the point of a game and had gone to a level we just didn't need to deal with...not for how much time we want to pu tinto Wii

[humble]

Is it not HTC that has shaped the AH world that exists today?  They provided the means for all of the things that some folks constantly gripe about to exist.  It appears that there is a small vocal group here on the boards with the assumption that if there are more than X amount of folks affiliated then they are unhealthy for the game.  No one has yet to address the fact that even though there are affiliated groups of 32 man squads, not all members are on at the same time.  I think the hordes that are being griped about are mostly the result of planned missions and not a single squad.  There needs to be some documentation, not just hearsay.  To blame your unhappiness with AH on anything other than yourself is silly.

Quality over quantity?  I am not sure where this came from, but it's basic assumption is absolutely wrong.  I do not think the two are mutually exclusive.  It is possible to have both.  I feel that I have both in my own squad.  Who are some of you to decide how well I know or need to know my own squad mates?  A weak argument at best gentleman.

I know the roots of this game were in WWII Aerial combat, and it will always be integral to the success of the game.  If folks take a look at the front web page, they will see that HTC has moved this away from a strictly dogfighting game.  It is now the Premier World War II Combat Experience (see graphic below).  Well that encompasses a heck of a lot more than just good 1 v 1 aerial fights.  Which by the way, I love just as much as the next pilot.  Unfortunately a lot of folks are relating their inability to create or find a good fight is because of someone else's poor gameplay or lack of skills. The players are operating within the framework of what is provided by the game creator.  I highly encourage you all to see what you can change in your approach to the game so it becomes enjoyable for you again.  To expect others to do it your way, just is not going to happen.  The only consistent thing in life is change.  Well Aces High is changing on a daily basis.  You can roll with it, or you can fight it.  In the end, change will win.
(Image removed from quote.)

<Salute>
Way

No question that HTC has abandoned its roots and lost a very high % of its initial core player base. A high % of vets are here simply because they have no other viable option. I agree completely that the framework of the game allows for all thats happening. The end result being an ever lowering level of both skill and game play.