Question for squadron leaders and members

[captain1ma]

for the life of me, i dont understand people. first there are not really any set rules in the AVA other then the encouragement to be respectful to other players. that rule is mostly ignored! everyone seems to think civil gameplay is comparable to the anti-christ! no one is forcing anyone to be civil. However, you get what you give. certain groups will ho if you ho first, will gang if you gang, will pick if you pick, etc. etc, etc.

the biggest problem i think is the planeset. the little scriptkiddies dont like it because they cant fly their Super Uber spit16's, typhoons, Hurri2's and other dweeby aircraft. the other people dont like it because of the same reasons.

this arena is about having fun with a short planeset and learning how to fight with less agile aircraft. fighting a bf-109e vs hurri 1 or spit 1 is a workout. its not get in, kill and get out. thats what makes it different.

you have to work for the kill, it doesnt come easy (unless you're behind me). the idea is to make it more realistic and more of a ACM arena. 6 people diving in on 1 poor soul happens but its not that often. ho'ing occurs but if you dont  ho, you wont get hoed back. i personally keep my finger on the trigger, if i see tracers, you get a face full!! if i dont, i fly by and get into the fight. its pretty simple.

example, i shot up potnpans last night, his engine smoking and fuel pouring out. when it quit, i just left him and flew by. of course one of my squaddies nailed him but i let him go because he was helpless and it wasnt a good fight. thats just me.

the planeset scare people because they have no advantage. the idea is to level the playing field. i go up against guys and have a decent shot at winning. i fly in the MA's with the same plane and im dead before i get started.

give the arena a chance. some nights are good, some nights are not. just depends on players and attitudes.

[Anaxogoras]

However, you get what you give. certain groups will ho if you ho first, will gang if you gang, will pick if you pick, etc. etc, etc.

Now there's a recipe for disaster.  A certain group takes it upon themselves to be jury and judge of when others are playing respectfully, and dishes out the worst this game has to offer if they perceive an infraction.

No wonder the AvA is what it is.

If you want to encourage a certain kind of behavior, you have to model it even if it doesn't seem like the other guy will follow.  You have to keep at it regardless.  First, your initial impression might be mistaken.  Second, if you are correct, modeling good behavior is the only thing that might change his mind.  Third, if you meet bad behavior with bad behavior, it produces more of the same, not the opposite.

[Kuhn]

Stopped in for a few hours on Saturday. Reminded me how bad I am in German rides. Tankman just wouldn't get in front of me. Had a good time.   

[antivortex]

Now there's a recipe for disaster.  A certain group takes it upon themselves to be jury and judge of when others are playing respectfully, and dishes out the worst this game has to offer if they perceive an infraction.

No wonder the AvA is what it is.

If you want to encourage a certain kind of behavior, you have to model it even if it doesn't seem like the other guy will follow.  You have to keep at it regardless.  First, your initial impression might be mistaken.  Second, if you are correct, modeling good behavior is the only thing that might change his mind.  Third, if you meet bad behavior with bad behavior, it produces more of the same, not the opposite.

Do you ever fly in the AvA or just post whine after whine on the bbs? The world wonders aloud...

[Larry]

If you want to encourage a certain kind of behavior, you have to model it even if it doesn't seem like the other guy will follow.  You have to keep at it regardless.  First, your initial impression might be mistaken.  Second, if you are correct, modeling good behavior is the only thing that might change his mind.  Third, if you meet bad behavior with bad behavior, it produces more of the same, not the opposite.

LMFAO. When we did try to 'encourage a certain kind of behavior' by asking people not to ho, pick, gang, etc. we were met by "you have no right telling us how to fly", and skuzzy even came in and edited our posts. Now you say we should "keep at it regardless"? I for one am done with ask people not to do those things. If they want to HO me then fine Ill HO back and laugh at you when they die. They want to vulch then Ill roll a tank on to your field and shut it down. They want to pick then Ill grab alt from a back base and pick every fight I see. The only problem with that is apparently its bad only when a certain group of people do it and when others do it people turn a blind eye.

[Anaxogoras]

LMFAO. When we did try to 'encourage a certain kind of behavior' by asking people not to ho, pick, gang, etc. we were met by "you have no right telling us how to fly", and skuzzy even came in and edited our posts. Now you say we should "keep at it regardless"?

Yes, if it is your desire to see a behavior modified in an environment where you have no authority and no codified rules with which to coerce, your best chance for getting what you want is to model the behavior you would like to see and hope for the best.  Polite and friendly suggestions are fine, but when someone suggests that they change their behavior, people pay more attention to actions than words.

The only problem with that is apparently its bad only when a certain group of people do it and when others do it people turn a blind eye.

I know what you're getting at here.  You're saying that when others pick, run, or gang they receive little attention for it, but if JG54 does it they're called out for it.  In fact, this is true and I agree with you.  My paragraph above gives you my opinion for why that happens.

Good luck.

[republic]

What I believe is part of the problem, is that many players assume JG-54 is a formal squad with a defined leader, chain of command, and flight doctrine.

JG-54 is more like a flying episode of Cheers (sometimes Seinfeld).  Just a bunch of guys who've worked a long day and enjoy flying cartoon airplanes together at the end of the day.  Some of us never HO, some HO only when HO'ed first, some HO regularly.  Some of us never smacktalk, some smack occasionally, some smack all the time.  So a HO or comment from one of us should not be seen as an affront by the entire squad.

I don't blame people for confusing us, since most squads in AH are structured.  When you think of JG-54 think more McHale's Navy less JAG.

[Twizzty]

What I believe is part of the problem, is that many players assume JG-54 is a formal squad with a defined leader, chain of command, and flight doctrine.

JG-54 is more like a flying episode of Cheers (sometimes Seinfeld).  Just a bunch of guys who've worked a long day and enjoy flying cartoon airplanes together at the end of the day.  Some of us never HO, some HO only when HO'ed first, some HO regularly.  Some of us never smacktalk, some smack occasionally, some smack all the time.  So a HO or comment from one of us should not be seen as an affront by the entire squad.

I don't blame people for confusing us, since most squads in AH are structured.  When you think of JG-54 think more McHale's Navy less JAG.

From the JG54 website and I quote:

"We are a highly organized group that enjoys shooting at cartoon airplanes from our virtual cockpits. The squad has hierarchical structure, and strict regulations. We follow our leader and his orders to a fault. We like to participate in organized game play or squad operations. Most what we do is have lots of fun at someone elses expense."

Larry I did enjoy the schooling you gave me the other night in the AvA. Man I have a long way to go, your great in that 110! I like what the AvA has to offer lately and will be back for more. I was a little disappointed when the first 2 fights ended before I got my gear up, but after that things went better.
<S>
spelling...

[republic]

 

We have a website?  Come fly with us one night, you'll see what I mean. 

[Twizzty]

Yeah, I'm making it a point to fly in the AvA more often, if it has more than 4-5 people I will head strait there. I would gladly fly with JG54 in the AvA one of these nights. See y'all up there! <S>

[Anaxogoras]

That's a good find twizzty.

I'm a big believer in judging individuals based on their own character and not based on their squad membership; I'm not a fan of tribalism (in the same way, I don't judge a squad based on one of its individuals).  That said, I still find it hard to listen to one guy tell me to fly a certain way when his own squadmates are doing the exact opposite.  If it's important enough to you that certain standards of behavior be observed, I expect you to have your own squad-mates observing that standard before you come after me.  Otherwise it's just a double standard.

[Slash27]

  When you think of JG-54 think more McHale's Navy less JAG.

I think "Navy" alright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw




 

[fudgums]

Ok...my turn to post.

The reason I think most people "encourage" no Hos, picks, gangs etc. Is because the "veterans" or AvA regulars try to teach/get better the way to fight a 1v1. Before I came to AvA. I was a BnZ tard that would make many mistakes in a 1v1. Then I came to AvA around Thanksgiving. Oh man did I learn alot that first week. I had no idea wtf a good merge was. Then I started learning, learning nice reversals and how throttle management is key. If a noob would just come to the AvA just for a few days and fly with the regulars and listen to them. He will get an understanding of beginning ACM and how to win fights. Let me use this as an example....

I was fighting blunoser in the AvA a few days ago. He didnt even know what a merge was...all he did was HO then turn and HO. He snapshoted me twice by just lucky shots. Finally around 7 times in a row I avoided the HO and shot him down easily. So over PM's he called me a noob and no sense of ACM. I told him...the P38 is a challenge for ya....go talk to b4buster. He said Stfu, so this was utterly surprising to me. So after a few words were talked. the .squelch command works . Few hours later...I found out its just w09 and not worth my time.

So the point of the story is that. Is that a the AvA is a hardcore training arena. Because #1 we're good pilots, #2 We fight one way and thats to improve our skills #3 You will become a better pilot when you learn from the regulars.

Hope yall understand

 

[republic]

I think "Navy" alright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw

[Larry]

I know what you're getting at here.  You're saying that when others pick, run, or gang they receive little attention for it, but if JG54 does it they're called out for it.  In fact, this is true and I agree with you.  My paragraph above gives you my opinion for why that happens.

Well no, I wasn't talking about that. What I was saying is there are some people that come in the arena and bring their MA tactics in with them. They'll pick and HO every in every fight but when asked to please stop they get mad and say ''its their $15 and they can do what they want'', which is true. Then after a while those people that asked him to stop get tired of his dweebyness and pick or HO them back then that's when they blow a gasket and say comments like ''I thought you guys don't HO, pick, vulch, gang, etc. in here'' or they just call you lame or a hypocrite. Then sometimes they come in here and say that they wont be playing anymore because of the game play is just like the MA. Which ironically where they go right back to.


As for the 'its not okay for JG54 to do it' its true. When we do something that others do on a regular basis the BBS and game is flooded with whines, but ignored when others do it. Its been like that for a very long time and even when we take a break from the arena we are still blamed for people leaving.