Author Topic: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?  (Read 5732 times)

Offline shreck

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #105 on: March 11, 2009, 07:58:44 PM »
Let me correct you since you are wrong.   :aok

  Now, if you followed around a mega squad, you'd see a ton of HOs, purely hording, all picks, lots of running from perfectly fair fights, lots of vulching, and little to zero ownage.  So to nitpick when you happen to see something you think makes us hypocrites is rather foolish.

This is clearly an unfounded generalization! Substantialy untrue!

Fights are dynamic and always changing.  Situations are never black and white.  We find ourselves in an even fight one minute and in a horde the next minute sometimes.  The thing is when we realize this we go fight elsewhere.  But to take a snapshot when we happen to have odds and try to justify a point that this is how we fight habitually is blatantly spinning it.
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You use the word "We" as if you are the only ones that incur these situations, This statement is true enough, although I'd say it was true for the entire community.


Last night a wingy and I were hunting in deuces, we came upon a 190a5 and k4 coalt, we started workin them and a high spit9 showed up. At this moment "wingy" happened to get one of his shot off by the 190 and egressed the area, now I'm still workin these 3 avoiding HO after HO  :D when a 38L shows up verily high above me. Now I still have good speed but the fight has brought me down to 5k where I finaly kill the spit! Still fast I continue to work the remaining 3 bogies, Now corner of my eye spots a high 262 comin for revenge, so I nose down heading north using my alt the best I can to gain speed and get some separation from the other 3 cons so maybe I can deal with the deuce without interference. The deuce is gaining and I still see dots at long vis in trail, so I continue till I've gone about 1/2 a sector. By this time the 3 cons are no factor but the deuce has closed to 1.5 and gaining, I test his commitment by starting a soft scissor to see what his reaction is, he obviously someone not to be taken for granted so I throttled back up and realized I was going paralell to a cv, so rolled toward the boat, scraped him from my 6 then picked up his 6 at approx 2.5 range. At this moment I could have relentlessly pushed his 6 and forced an unfair engagement with him. I chose instead to roll left and head paralell yet slightly going away from him, hoping he would see I was up for a clean merge. We reached the radar circle out of icon range so I turned toward him and was happy to see he had turned toward me, We had a nice jet fight that degenerated to a slow turn fight was allot of fun. Now my point after rambling on so, is if was you guys I guarantee the chnl 200 name calling and taunting would have been legendary, so did I run or did I set up a good fair fight with a rival jet? so much of your post is circumstance, so much of everyones experience in Aces High is also circumstance! So before you vet guys continue insulting the gameplay of the rest of the community, please understand the rest of the community has circumstance that has them do the very things you guys do "because of circumstance"  :aok  You guys may be good, but you deny thru your banter and taunts the rest of the community the learnig curve that each and everyone of you enjoyed back in the day!





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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2009, 08:08:23 PM »
I joined back in the March-April time-frame of 2001.  I don't doubt that I have changed as a person - when I started playing I was 23 with a huge chip on my shoulder and a bad anger problem.  Now I'm 31, married with a kid on the way, great job, but more important I'm happy. 

That said, the game has changed, and it isn't for the better.  When I started playing, the focus of the game was on air combat.  Sometime around the 2003-2004 time-frame the focus of the game moved from air combat to resetting the map - and it hasn't looked back.  When I started playing, you could find two fields that were a sector or so apart and if you took off and flew to the enemy field at some point you would be met by an enemy.  Again, that changed several years back - one of the most disgusting memories I have of this game is me flying to an enemy field looking for a fight, orbiting for a while with nothing, de-acking the field and LANDING ON IT, and sitting in front of the tower for 5 minutes.  Nobody ever rolled. 

That is more typical of game-play today. 

I remember a quote from Hitech saying the base capture / map reset mechanism was an enabler for air combat.  That is no longer the case.  The base taking is no longer a means to an end, it is the end.

Vulching, ganging, picking?  Yes, those all happened.  Hell, I don't doubt that there were even some conga lines 'back in the day'.  But even though I would say that air combat "purists" were always a minority in the game, that point of view is pretty much extinct in AH today.

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Offline BnZs

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2009, 10:40:39 PM »
Its is incomprehensible to me that people are much interested in anything other than killing a manned machine. When you blow up a building, ain't no one at home throwing their joystick across the room in frustration. That sucks!

All in all, looking at feelthy pictures on the Web is alot more fun than taking down a town, and pissing on an electric fence is more fun than de-acking a base. The only experience in this game worth $15 bucks a month is inflicting low-down dirty aerial murder on the other poor SOB and getting away to laugh about it.

That said, if you fly something that is both slow and hyper maneuverable relative the rest of the plane set, you can expect to sometimes have trouble finding fights. If you fly an airplane with the opposite attributes, you can almost always find somebody willing to fight, or run 'em down and force 'em to fight if they ain't.

"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline moot

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2009, 01:00:49 AM »
Its is incomprehensible to me that people are much interested in anything other than killing a manned machine.
For the same reason you get a kick out of titanic hollywood explosions and gigantic landscape mayhem in special effects, and not solely character development or interactions.
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Offline Steve

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2009, 01:59:42 AM »
IMHO, as others have mentioned, it all comes down to the size of the maps and the division of the MA.  On the smaller maps, the hordelings have nowhere to hide. There's fewer bases so it's harder to noe-take them. On the huge maps, most do not care if their country loses 10 or 12 bases, they have a hundred more. On the smaller maps since bases are fewer, they have more value and are more likely to be defended. Also obvisouly, the hordeling mega squads can't go to some obscure corner of the map, with the cooked up excuse that they are helping their team, and roll undefended bases.

I also believe that it is the bigger maps and dividing of the MA that has contributed to the overall decline in skill of the average stick.  Newer players feel they can succeed in the safety of the horde and they never develop their skills.  Heck, some of the long time players in the mega squads can't put up a decent fight.  Combine the LW Ma's, bring in smaller maps, and let the bloodbath commence. In time, you will see a spike in the skill level of the average Joe,  IMHO.
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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2009, 08:44:45 AM »
IMHO, as others have mentioned, it all comes down to the size of the maps and the division of the MA.  On the smaller maps, the hordelings have nowhere to hide. There's fewer bases so it's harder to noe-take them. On the huge maps, most do not care if their country loses 10 or 12 bases, they have a hundred more. On the smaller maps since bases are fewer, they have more value and are more likely to be defended. Also obvisouly, the hordeling mega squads can't go to some obscure corner of the map, with the cooked up excuse that they are helping their team, and roll undefended bases.

I also believe that it is the bigger maps and dividing of the MA that has contributed to the overall decline in skill of the average stick.  Newer players feel they can succeed in the safety of the horde and they never develop their skills.  Heck, some of the long time players in the mega squads can't put up a decent fight.  Combine the LW Ma's, bring in smaller maps, and let the bloodbath commence. In time, you will see a spike in the skill level of the average Joe,  IMHO.

Seconded.

Offline hitech

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #111 on: March 12, 2009, 09:10:53 AM »
Quote
I also believe that it is the bigger maps and dividing of the MA that has contributed to the overall decline in skill of the average stick.  Newer players feel they can succeed in the safety of the horde and they never develop their skills.  Heck, some of the long time players in the mega squads can't put up a decent fight.  Combine the LW Ma's, bring in smaller maps, and let the bloodbath commence. In time, you will see a spike in the skill level of the average Joe,  IMHO.

1000 people on a small map does not work. You are really arguing against yourself. On one hand you say you do not like larger maps, Larger maps were created because of how large the arena population was becoming. 2nd you you argue that you want everyone in one arena, but then complain about the "horde" because of safety in numbers. Well more people in one arena makes more numbers. So it sounds to me like you are grasping at straws trying to find a justification for your wanting to go back to 1 arena.


HiTech

Offline shreck

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #112 on: March 12, 2009, 10:15:43 AM »
Anyway as to the initial question of this thread, I say--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->ROSE COLORED GLASSES!< :aok

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #113 on: March 12, 2009, 10:28:35 AM »
I don't know about you Steve, but Titanic Tuesday is rarely enjoyable to me because the radar on the clipboard map goes on vacation, vox goes out, I run into the 32 plane limit, etc.

Small maps with split arenas sounds like a good compromise.  I love the terrain on the re-released Trinity map, but it's one of the worst maps for finding a consistent fight.  Last night in orange, prime-time:



So far as I can see the one fight on the whole map is between bish and rooks.  There were 400 people in the arena.  Our squad is flying knight this tour and so we were out of luck.  Two of us ended up going to the DA to duke it out because of the lack of action.
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Offline humble

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #114 on: March 12, 2009, 10:37:18 AM »
Anyway as to the initial question of this thread, I say--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->ROSE COLORED GLASSES!< :aok

Actually you need to look no farther then your own stats to see how the game has changed.

Feb 09 you have just under 600 kills with 80%+ in either the K4 or perk planes (mostly 262). If we go back just 2 years to tour 85 (Feb 07) while you still use the tempest and other rides to skew the #'s we have a % of hops in the ki-84 109F4 and various jugs. go back another year and we see a lot of the nikki and ki-84 with a sprinkling of zekes and other mid eny rides. go back to 2005 and your mostly an la-7 driver.

So we can see over 4 years the progression from what most would call an "easy mode" ride to a progressing furballer to more of an e fighter and now really full circle. None of this is meant as any type of attack at all, just an look at the observable stats we have. Now without question your both responding to changes in how you perceive the game...and how you perceive the game being played (2 different things in my mind)...but no question we see huge variations in plane use...all away from an air combat mode and more to an exploitive air superiority mode. To me this is a microcosm of game play at large with many seasoned sticks following the same path. Personally I think that any use of a perk plane should void all scoring for the tour or the score criteria should change....

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Offline Saurdaukar

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2009, 10:45:35 AM »
1000 people on a small map does not work. You are really arguing against yourself. On one hand you say you do not like larger maps, Larger maps were created because of how large the arena population was becoming. 2nd you you argue that you want everyone in one arena, but then complain about the "horde" because of safety in numbers. Well more people in one arena makes more numbers. So it sounds to me like you are grasping at straws trying to find a justification for your wanting to go back to 1 arena.


HiTech

I agree with you that 1,000 people in a single arena does not work and the current setup is the result of both the need to change game mechanics and, frankly speaking, community demands, to which HTC listened.

So, in effect, you can say that some members of the community are, in fact, against what they wanted previously.

That said, Im reading Sun's post a little differently.  In my mind, I dont have an issue with splitting arenas; I actually like the ability to leave one if a decent fight cant be found.

By the same token, however, I will state that the smaller maps always offer more fun, for me at least.  The best furballs seem to manifest themselves between two fields within close proximity to each other.

What if we kept two late war main arenas and tried introducing smaller, or medium-sized maps into the rotation, more consistently?

The larger maps, although theoretically better suited to a larger number of players, always have a lot of wasted space.

At the end of the day, youre really only going to have 3 fights; Rook v. Bish, Bish v. Knight and Knight v Rook.  A single front, by and large, with perhaps some ancillary NOEing on the fringe.

With that in mind, why not go back to condensing the whole thing to make those fronts more readily accessible?

I guess, in a summarized version, Im suggesting that the community demands for larger maps were short-sighted.  Larger maps represented one step forward and two steps back.

Has HTC considered reversing the decision?

Offline Urchin

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #116 on: March 12, 2009, 11:18:12 AM »
1000 people on a small map does not work. You are really arguing against yourself. On one hand you say you do not like larger maps, Larger maps were created because of how large the arena population was becoming. 2nd you you argue that you want everyone in one arena, but then complain about the "horde" because of safety in numbers. Well more people in one arena makes more numbers. So it sounds to me like you are grasping at straws trying to find a justification for your wanting to go back to 1 arena.


HiTech

Personally, when I refer to the "hordes", I am referring to the people who form up into large gaggles of people and go attack undefended fields while one of their fields is simultanously being swarmed.  Smaller maps would in my opinion lead to more defending instead of playing musical fields, as there are fewer empty areas for swarms to move around in.  I think that the people who were originally arguing for larger maps were doing so because the maps were getting too crowded - i.e. it wasn't possible to swarm down field after field while the enemy swarm did the same to yours.

If you have two gaggles of people from two different countries flying around in between two bases, I would tend to refer to that as a fight, which is what I am looking for. 

Offline Stang

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2009, 11:36:31 AM »
For the same reason you get a kick out of titanic hollywood explosions and gigantic landscape mayhem in special effects, and not solely character development or interactions.
So toolshedders love chick flicks?  Makes perfect sense, always whining about bullies and their feelings and how the only meaningful thing in game is their interactions on squad channel.  Might as well be an episode of sex and the city without the sex or the tits.  Sounds like an estrogen problem.

Offline shreck

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2009, 11:54:59 AM »
Actually you need to look no farther then your own stats to see how the game has changed.

Feb 09 you have just under 600 kills with 80%+ in either the K4 or perk planes (mostly 262). If we go back just 2 years to tour 85 (Feb 07) while you still use the tempest and other rides to skew the #'s we have a % of hops in the ki-84 109F4 and various jugs. go back another year and we see a lot of the nikki and ki-84 with a sprinkling of zekes and other mid eny rides. go back to 2005 and your mostly an la-7 driver.

So we can see over 4 years the progression from what most would call an "easy mode" ride to a progressing furballer to more of an e fighter and now really full circle. None of this is meant as any type of attack at all, just an look at the observable stats we have. Now without question your both responding to changes in how you perceive the game...and how you perceive the game being played (2 different things in my mind)...but no question we see huge variations in plane use...all away from an air combat mode and more to an exploitive air superiority mode. To me this is a microcosm of game play at large with many seasoned sticks following the same path. Personally I think that any use of a perk plane should void all scoring for the tour or the score criteria should change....

Are you implying that score is what I'm after ?  Cause I had my go at score awhile back and found it to be faaaar to much maitenance and day to day attention for a sane person to want to do.
Now to address you offhanded attempt at labeling me as an UBER only game player. You are correct I've been flying the deuce allot lately, I've also lost about 6,000 perks inside of about 6 weeks in it. So my point is I routinely put the deuce in very risky situations! You have to apear as a tasty target to be successful in it! Anyone who has been around whem I'm workin the deuce knows 1st hand that I put it in very tempting situations and am usually out #d, do I try to maintain my advantage ?  ofcourse I do as anyone else does do I average 7-8 kills in the deuce, mostly fighters? yes I do. So because I'm choosing the deuce at this time of my gaming experience, does not mean I don't get in there and mix it up. If your intent is to show that, because I fly the "uber deuce" that I am timid at best, maybe how you fly the deuce is more a reflection on how you percieve deuce drivers as being timid or just pickers! Also I never give up a possible fight with another jet, I will extend from the horde to do so, but never shun from it, as it is possibly the most fun fight one can have in the game!

Your assurtion that I "scew" the numbers is BS, as I have no control whether I fly the deuce in fighter mode or attack mode as you are aware!

You know, some could come to the conclusion that the main reason you fly A20s and SBDs is that it feeds your personal narcisist feelings of--> "oh look at what I can do with an inferior ride", while using the advantage of F3 view! I am also one of the bish that routinely ups at capped bases to defend it, something very few have the stomach for even some vets!You may like most to believe your post is not an attack, but it clearly is a troll directed at me! So please don't beat around the bush, just say what's on your mind :aok   :salute

Offline shreck

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Re: The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2009, 12:01:13 PM »
 
 Personally I think that any use of a perk plane should void all scoring for the tour or the score criteria should change....

I thought you could care less about score? If this is true, why does it matter ? :huh