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Author Topic: Mysterious move  (Read 2724 times)

Offline 1Boner

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Mysterious move
« on: April 22, 2009, 02:43:39 PM »
I am by no means even a mediocre player, but I can't figure out how to do, or counter, this mystery move.

Right after the merge I will look back and see the guy who just flew past me in the opposite direction literally 1 second ago is now on my 6.

This seems to happen in the blink of an eye.

Occasionaly I look back in time to see what I will call a "cobra" manuver, yet the plane doesn't seem to lose any energy!

Everytime I see this happen I know I am dead.

Can anyone shed some light on this mystery (to me) move?? :noid

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Offline sunfan1121

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 02:56:26 PM »
Film would help.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 02:57:19 PM »
Quote from: sunfan1121 on April 22, 2009, 02:56:26 PM
Film would help.

I'd even dare to say: It's essential ;)
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Offline Scotch

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 03:22:10 PM »
Quote from: 1Boner on April 22, 2009, 02:43:39 PM
Right after the merge I will look back and see the guy who just flew past me in the opposite direction literally 1 second ago is now on my 6.
This seems to happen in the blink of an eye.

What angle is he coming at you into the merge at?
A simple lead turn on the merge will put his nose on your tail quickly after the merge if he times it  correctly.
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Offline 1Boner

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 03:23:34 PM »
Thanks guys, will do on the film.

Its ALWAYS the top fighters in the game that pull this move on me.

Hopefully I will run into one of these guys soon and will post.

 :salute
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"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline 1Boner

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 03:32:55 PM »
Quote from: Scotch on April 22, 2009, 03:22:10 PM
What angle is he coming at you into the merge at?
A simple lead turn on the merge will put his nose on your tail quickly after the merge if he times it  correctly.

We will usually fly right past each other very close, as I'm waiting for the HO that doesn't happen!! :pray

It looks like they are pointing the nose almost straight up, yet they climb very little and then fall into the opposite direction right behind me.

I've tried extending a little to get some distance for manuvering, but they don't seem to lose any energy and I can't seem to shake them even though I haven't turned or slowed down at all.

I'll try to film it and post it.
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"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline DamnedRen

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 03:37:27 PM »
Holy :pray "Bat Turn" Batman!             

Ren
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Offline Scotch

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 03:40:45 PM »
Yeah, that's really not possible as described in a mostly horizontal plane unless lag or some other issue is changing how it's displayed on your screen. Get the film, watch it a few times. Watch it a few times from their view. Hopefully we can figure it out.
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Offline mtnman

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 03:45:47 PM »
Boner- when you see this on a merge, you wouldn't by any chance be above him as you merge, and then pulling for an immelmann?

When you do a merge, are you trying to be above him, below him, beside him, below him nosing up as you merge, above him and nosing down as you merge?  What do you prefer, and how does it normally seem to happen?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 03:48:19 PM »
Quote from: 1Boner on April 22, 2009, 02:43:39 PM
I am by no means even a mediocre player, but I can't figure out how to do, or counter, this mystery move.

Right after the merge I will look back and see the guy who just flew past me in the opposite direction literally 1 second ago is now on my 6.

This seems to happen in the blink of an eye.

Occasionaly I look back in time to see what I will call a "cobra" manuver, yet the plane doesn't seem to lose any energy!

Everytime I see this happen I know I am dead.

Can anyone shed some light on this mystery (to me) move?? :noid



not to give ya a short answer.......go to the ta, and find ren. he showed it to me, and how to do it...but i suck at explaining it, or doing it yet......
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Offline 1Boner

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 03:48:50 PM »
Quote from: Scotch on April 22, 2009, 03:40:45 PM
Yeah, that's really not possible as described in a mostly horizontal plane unless lag or some other issue is changing how it's displayed on your screen. Get the film, watch it a few times. Watch it a few times from their view. Hopefully we can figure it out.

Yeah, I know it sounds impossible and I'm sure that when I record and view a film, it will become apparent that what I "think" I'm seeing and whats really going on are 2 different things.

But I'm tellin ya, the description above accurately describes what I think I'm seeing.

It hasn't happened just once or twice.

Over the years this has happened quite a few times.

Could be old age settin in.

Thanks for answering a dottering ol fool anyways guys! :salute
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"Life is just as deadly as it looks"  Richard Thompson

"So umm.... just to make sure I have this right.  What you are asking is for the bombers carrying bombs, to stop dropping bombs on the bombs, so the bombers can carry bombs to bomb things with?"  AKP

Offline Messiah

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 04:09:50 PM »
I remember a film Nath posted of the cobra maneuver; he turned 180 degrees almost on the spot and served a zeke a 30mm, was pretty amazing. It requires hard rudder and stick movements to do, but you will blow your energy doing this.  Not sure if this is the same thing you are describing however.
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Offline pervert

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 04:56:19 PM »
I'd start a gentle (ish) spiral climb in the opposite direction of his turn until you figure out how much e has.
Most of the better turning planes will pull hard for guns after a merge but they only really have effective guns range for a few seconds before you outpace them. If you fly straight your making it an easier shot for them or if you try looking for angles by turning you'll be helping him get back that e he lost in the super sharp turn and your already at an angles disadvanage.
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Offline Belial

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 05:47:56 PM »
Sounds like the plane dove slightly under him into a high yoyo?  and slid back on 6.
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Offline choppit

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Re: Mysterious move
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 06:30:23 PM »
I've seen this "Cobra" move before, always an La-7 or a Spixteen, never anything else. Right after the merge they do what looks like an immelmann but it takes hardly any space. The few times that I've seen this has been in the 190D-9 and they are able to reverse immediately after the merge, no more than 400-600 out, and then start gaining (in the case of the La-7 anyways). I know not to get a 190 slow when I'm fighting in it, especially the Dora, but with my little aerodynamic experience, wouldn't a maneuver like that bleed an exceptional amount of energy?
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