Why so few people?

[captain1ma]

death to the allied dogs of war!! we want a kinder gentler third reich!!

[Oldman731]

trust me when I say I know more about whats wrong with the AvA then you do.

...well...so...what the heck is it?

- oldman

[Larry]

Hmmm....

All I did was answer the guys question, trust me when I say I know more about whats wrong with the AvA then you do. If you did know what was wrong you'd fix it. Obviously the desire and effort are there but not the results....since its empty most of the time.

Thing is I don't see any problems with the AvA. Sure there could be a little more people but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the AvA. There is something wrong when people like you, karaya, and krusty some in here trying to run people off with your negative attitude telling lies just       because you don't want people to try the AvA out.

I can't speak for anyone else but the reality is I don't "need" the AvA so I have no motivation to try and change it since the core group likes it how it is and doesn't really want to change it.

See that is what the problem is. You don't fly or care about the AvA you just want to lie and talk noodles so others wont fly. Like the others said put up or shut up. its as simple as that.

...well...so...what the heck is it?

- oldman

Nothing OM he just wants attention.

[Wedge1126]

Maybe AvA needs a name change. Seems to have worked for the Me 210 -> Me 410 and Vista -> Windows 7. It'll look like something new and might get people to come in and see what's going on.

[Larry]

It already had one. It was Combat Theater until a few years ago when HTC wanted 'CT' for Combat Tour that never happened.

[humble]

Thing is I don't see any problems with the AvA

Thats the 1st problem, if you throw a party and no one comes it tells you something....

Sure there could be a little more people

Sounds like the problem that doesnt exist the initial poster inquired about...
There is something wrong when people like you
 
Murder the messenger?

I don't go around bashing the AvA, in fact I hope it does take off, but until the guys who do fly it open to change it will take similar shift to 2004 to make it happen.

[Larry]

See that's the thing. You and all the other bashers are the ones that want things to change. OM asked what you would do and nothing. Tell us how you would do things instead of saying you're not going to because no one sees a problem. Again put up or shut up.

[Masherbrum]

See that's the thing. You and all the other bashers are the ones that want things to change. OM asked what you would do and nothing. Tell us how you would do things instead of saying you're not going to because no one sees a problem. Again put up or shut up.

What "we" do is pointless, because no matter what "we" say, you'll have the same "We don't need to change" attitude.   Sooner or later, you'll grasp this concept.   

I don't tell lies.   My statements of the past are VERY substantiated and backed.   I don't post negative things.   I only "correct" the BS that is sometimes foisted off in the heat of "exaggeration".   If some of the lunacy left the AvA, I would become a "regular", but until I see a change, I'll wait.   

I'm not "bashing" anything.   Point out a single post in this thread where "Karaya bashed the AvA".   You can't, because I never did.   You only see what you want to see and ignore the rest.   Jaeger, antivortex have done nothing positive in this thread, compared to what Humble posted.

We want to help, but you won't let us. 

[Chilli]

The original post stated the obvious, AvA is a great arena, and it baffles those of us who enjoy the historical matchups that it is empty 95% of the time.

I have had my own personal fallout, and had to get over myself.  The funny thing is, I can't remember what ticked me off so.  The best that I can recollect, events that attracted large number of participants were taken off the shelf and never examined.  For anyone who has been in touch with the AvA in the past few tours, that has been corrected with the recent influx of new interesting events.

Hmmmmm...

• No bomber drones, they warp. Okay, maybe during regular arena hours, but allowed in some events
• Ack at 1.0 lethality  The bases are generally so close together ack will hit you as soon after you take off
• Enemy icons at 3k I don't think it is necessary to sneak around, but okay maybe... or adjust radar
• Incorporate ENY and perks to encourage the use of less capable aircraft  I like the idea of some sort of reward for successful tactics but am worried about how to balance those who run away from fair fights for the sake of perks
• AvA arena moved to a server that isn't shared with the main arena  Glitches that are caused by other arenas, are beyond the CMs control, but identifying the culprit does help

See..... maybe there is some middle ground.   The best way to find out is to come up with an event idea, with your suggestions in mind and let Oldman and staff do there magic.  It has been very rewarding to participate in an arena where, player consideration is actually implemented.

[humble]

...well...so...what the heck is it?

- oldman

I didnt mean to ignore you earlier oldman, I know you put forth a lot of effort (not discounting efforts by larry or others btw).

1st I'll examine my 2 "recent" forays into the AvA. Most recent was the Midway setup (tour 82). A convergence of 2 things...numbers and the SBD

As always I flew the low numbered side. Now this is a set up that greatly favored the IJN, especially with low ack lethality and the carriers parked very close to the field. Realistically the only plane that the allies had that can furball with the zeke is actually the SBD which is an almost even match for it if the SBD has gotten high enough to have some room in the verts. When the allies had numbers (rare) then the alt advantage gave them a decent chance but even so with alt and numbers it was an uphill slog for most of them.

For the most part the fight was right over the atoll and often in the ack vs roughly 2-1 numbers. The simple reality is that historical setups are not often well balanced and it takes player discipline. You cant control the fact that most players (including Larry) favored the axis and pressed the action to gain a double advantage.

I wasn't just there for 1 or 2 hops. My fighter score was enough to rank me 13 for the entire tour and I was 6-6 vs zekes in the SBD fighting them literally off the end of the runway. For me thats fine, but how many guys will stick around for that? This isnt a "design" issue its a game play issue....

Got some work stuff....more later

[humble]

If we go back further it was some MTO (sicily or tunesia) with decent numbers but fundamentally a rolling pick fest were you could easily pick the fights but if you bothered to fight you just got picked. In this case I think the plane set was among the best possible but the interaction again was stunted by the player actions. The reality is that it doesn't take a lot to imbalance things with low numbers...so a few guys pick and then a few guys on other side and soon its out of hand.

now the counter point is that "picking" is entirely what real WW2 combat was about. More numbers, more alt a few passes and off you go. So you have a subset that want to fly the "better" plane with numbers and fly from strength vs others who prefer to T&B or don't mind working from a disadvantage. Inevitably the numbers on the "lesser" side attrite since no real framework for interaction exists. Very few truly balanced plane sets exist IMO so in the end the players need to carry the load and work within the imbalance.

[Krusty]

The same few folks saying "there's nothing wrong, you're all just liars!!!" are the ones that cause most of the problems.

Note I've been trashed extensively in these forums (even when I'm not here) by these same folks that plug their ears and shout "la la la!! NOTHING IS WRONG!!!!"


Snap, karaya, they have their private boy's club, it's a treehouse if you will. They like it as-is, an are the only ones that will be allowed in. I say let them have it. Let it self-implode until HTC finally wises up and closes it down.

[Dawger]

So put up or shut up, folks.  What changes could we make that would bring you into the arena on a regular basis?

- oldman

Its pretty simple for me. I fly in a P38 squad. We pretty much don't get excited about flying anything else. We also fly together, usually four or five guys at any given time. The major reason I don't spend more time in the AvA is its is too much trouble trying to figure out what the current plane set is at any given moment and it certainly doesn't stay the same for long enough. 2 weeks is what I consider the ideal time period for a particular plane set in an historical arena. Time enough to really enjoy it. And long enough to get into the habit of spending time in the AvA. If I was running the AvA I would get as far away as possible from the historical matchups that seem to appeal to very limited player numbers and run stuff that would draw folks and get them used to flying in the AvA. Still historical but not specifically designed to keep numbers as low as possible.

If I got an email telling me the setups and what dates they would be in the AvA it would increase my attendance. If the P38 was a regular staple, my squad would have a bigger presence there. Is that selfish? Sure. But that is the way it is. My squadron would be perfectly happy flying a permanent New Guinea setup.

[Larry]

You cant control the fact that most players (including Larry) favored the axis and pressed the action to gain a double advantage.

See there is another one of those lies I was talking about. When I see numbers uneven I almost always switch to even them out. The only time I don't is when my squad is some sort of missun. What you probably don't remember, or just don't want to, is the time that the allies were out numbered and I switched over and rolled a SBD right behind you.

We want to help, but you won't let us. 

Just another excuse. Like I said you don't want to help you just want to look like you want to help. If you really wanted to help you would be in the arena trying to change us for the 'better'. But then you would actually have to do something. You say you want something to change but aren't willing to put the work in. Only reason you're in here is to try and make yourself look like the good guy. Well I'm sorry to say you aren't. You're not a regular int he AvA and you will never be because you would rather come here and trash talk then actually do something about it. Until then keep crying on here while the rest of us play in our little 'sandbox'.

[Dawger]

See there is another one of those lies I was talking about. When I see numbers uneven I almost always switch to even them out. The only time I don't is when my squad is some sort of missun. What you probably don't remember, or just don't want to, is the time that the allies were out numbered and I switched over and rolled a SBD right behind you.


Just another excuse. Like I said you don't want to help you just want to look like you want to help. If you really wanted to help you would be in the arena trying to change us for the 'better'. But then you would actually have to do something. You say you want something to change but aren't willing to put the work in. Only reason you're in here is to try and make yourself look like the good guy. Well I'm sorry to say you aren't. You're not a regular int he AvA and you will never be because you would rather come here and trash talk then actually do something about it. Until then keep crying on here while the rest of us play in our little 'sandbox'.

Oh....and getting Larry to stop posting would help to. The above quote is an example of all the worst of the AvA. I'm sure the guy means well but the AvA would be better served if he just stopped posting (voluntarily...I'm not talking about forcing him to do so). I'm fairly sure I know exactly what he will post in response but Oldman asked for suggestions, so here are my suggestions.