Why so few people?

[Larry]

I had a big speech written up but I decided to keep it short.

The only people keeping you from playing the way you want, playing or helping the arena is youself. If you REALLY wanted to go something good for the arena then you wouldn't care what others want.

I'm not part of the AvA staff, I'm just a paying player like everyone else. How I act only reflects upon me. Not the arena. Not my squad. Not people who support what I do. As I said I'm just a player. Only difference is I stepped up and took it upon myself to bring more people into the arena. I'm just lucky that the AvA staff can look past my weak points and help me make the missions playable. And for that I thank them. If they thought that I was doing more bad then good then they could have my missions shut down in a heartbeat. If they thought that anyone was hurting the arena so much that they where the only problem keeping the arena populated then all it would take is one phone call to HTC.

So how about you and the others stop crying about how a few of us act and put your ideas out on the table. Better yet go around the AvA community and directly to the staff.  Because like I said the only people stopping you are yourselves.

[captain1ma]

I'll take exception to this part of that post since you insist on being a child. You were one of the folks who kept insisting that there was some sort of altitude limit in the AvA when I flew in there regularly a while back. You were part of the problem. Maybe you have since stopped doing that. I hope so. Because it keeps people out of the arena.

And you keep trying to say that I was the one causing the problem. It is a plain and simple attempt to deflect blame from yourself.

Just because you do volunteer work for the AvA it does not give you extra privileges of any sort. In fact, it demands a higher standard of behavior, not a lower standard.

I am disappointed that Oldman used your volunteer work in your defense. That does not bode well.

An arena that is trying to build a following needs ambassadors for the arena not prima donnas parading around trumpeting the sort of stuff you post on this forum and the sort of things I have personally seen you express in the arena.

Oldman seems to be backing you and your continued childish behavior. I understand he is grateful for the help but he is missing a major point. He would find lots of help that don't constantly parade a "Hey, look at me" sign if he made polite and positive behavior a pre-condition of being a part of the AvA team.

If I were the player running the AvA there would be no excuses for your behavior and would distance myself as far as possible from you unless you decided to become someone who worked for what was best for the AvA and the game instead of narrow self interest.

But it seems that your work in the arena excuses your behavior instead of making that work pointless. So I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time here. I know with a certainty that if your behavior is acceptable as part of the AvA team then I could not and would not be part of that team.

and now for something completely different!! 8 paragraphs on larry's behavioral problems. how about some positive input there little buckeroo!!

I like playing in the AVA because..........

there i started it for you, now you can finish it easily.

[B4Buster]

I agree Dawger...Larry's attitude isn't always acceptable. I personally have never had a problem with him, but I have seen it.

Larry has seemed to always treat me with respect, as I him. Other squadies of his hasn't and still don't, but I will only tolerate it for so long. Back on topic. Honestly, Larry helped me quite a bit with computer issues, and once when I asked for a specific 38 skin, he very quickly finished a nightfighter 38J skin (I lost the file thingy for it so I can't fly it offline, could I possibly get that sent to me again?  )

Also, Larry is easily the most active AvA member, and he does try to draw in numbers with his Wednesday night missions. I think he does a pretty good job, considering the plane set is not always appealing to everyone, and advertising for the AvA is not really an easy task.

I don't think Oldman was using Larry's advisory status (for lack of a better term) as an excuse for his behavior. He was just trying to point out the fact that he does help out the arena by participating in it, not just posting here on the forums suggesting what will make it better.

My 2 cents

[Larry]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/P38J_1.zip


This is the old one. An undate is in the works.

[toonces3]

Alot of interesting points.

I think Snaphook hit the closest to the "problem" of the AvA. 

I never did understand this, and I still don't.  In a game about WW2 aerial combat, you'd think the AvA would be the most populated arena.  It ought to be.  I mean, if you have an interest in history and WW2 and air combat, why would you prefer the mish-mash of planes available in the the MA over an historical matchup? 

Remember when everyone was so happy about the big maps coming back in the MA?  There were big maps in the AvA way before that.  And they look better too.

The problem with the AvA isn't any inherent problem with the setup, maps, planeset, whatever.  It's the mindset of the people that pay to play this game.  For whatever reason, the MA is where people would rather spend their time.  I'm sure someone can figure out why that is- what in the MA makes it more appealing to folks that should have their sensibilities terribly offended by the mixed up planesets. 

The MA is Quake with wings.  The AvA is at least an attempt at a WW2 Flight Sim. 

When/if you guys figure out how to make the AvA popular, I'll happily renew my subscription.  Until then, I just don't see the point in flying Quake in the MA, and I don't have the patience to pretend I'm flying in WW2 when there's 2 other people in 500 square miles of map.

I realize I do nothing to help in this post, but I just wanted to express my opinion.  I'm pretty sure I've said this exact thing  a few times over the years.

[Anaxogoras]

Toonces, did you ever fly FSO?  That alone is worth the subscription price.

[Masherbrum]

And what does my age have to do with anything? That's right, absolutely nothing. You are just jealous that a 22 year old kid has done more for the AvA then you ever will.

Quit hijacking the thread Larry.   

[captain1ma]

Toonces, did you ever fly FSO?  That alone is worth the subscription price.

Quit hijacking the thread Gavagai.

[Larry]

Quit hijacking the thread Gavagai.

Quit hijacking the thread Jaeger!

[Oldman731]

I am disappointed that Oldman used your volunteer work in your defense. That does not bode well.

An arena that is trying to build a following needs ambassadors for the arena not prima donnas parading around trumpeting the sort of stuff you post on this forum and the sort of things I have personally seen you express in the arena.

Oldman seems to be backing you and your continued childish behavior. I understand he is grateful for the help but he is missing a major point. He would find lots of help that don't constantly parade a "Hey, look at me" sign if he made polite and positive behavior a pre-condition of being a part of the AvA team.

If I were the player running the AvA there would be no excuses for your behavior and would distance myself as far as possible from you unless you decided to become someone who worked for what was best for the AvA and the game instead of narrow self interest.

But it seems that your work in the arena excuses your behavior instead of making that work pointless. So I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time here. I know with a certainty that if your behavior is acceptable as part of the AvA team then I could not and would not be part of that team.

There are some people who enjoy being unpleasant to others, who find pleasure in being disruptive or abusive.  The AvA staff, for quite some time now, has uniformly muted, and occasionally ejected, those people.  There are others who are serious about their hobbies and will sometimes be abrasive in their effort to preserve or improve those hobbies (Shane, Lazs, Larry all come to mind in this connection).  The difference is the intent, and generally it doesn't require a psychology degree to figure out which group someone belongs to.

The old-time regulars who stuck with the AvA through its years of drought generally assume that others will follow the "code of conduct" that evolved during those years.  They are wrong to try to enforce this on anyone (and of course they have no power to enforce anything), but their assumption is no different from those of many MA oldtimers, who frequently complain about HOs, hording, ganging, picking and so forth in the MAs.  If you had stopped into the AvA a year ago you would have found the Channel 200 talk to be far more abusive than it is now (and far less abusive than the typical Channel 200 talk in the MA).  People are trying to stifle their impulse to control others' behavior.  Sometimes they slip, but things have improved a lot.

All of which is to say that constructive people are welcomed, warts and all.  Larry doesn't control the arena any more than I do (well...maybe a bit less...).  If I see him going off on Channel 200 - which I actually have not seen in quite awhile - he stops as soon as I ask him to.  We can all live with that.  I don't perceive that he is working for his narrow self-interest at all.  If you spend some more time in the arena, I'll bet that you'll agree with me.

- oldman

[Chilli]

.....The problem with the AvA isn't any inherent problem with the setup, maps, planeset, whatever.  It's the mindset of the people that pay to play this game.  For whatever reason, the MA is where people would rather spend their time.  I'm sure someone can figure out why that is- what in the MA makes it more appealing to folks that should have their sensibilities terribly offended by the mixed up planesets. 

The MA is Quake with wings.  The AvA is at least an attempt at a WW2 Flight Sim...... 

I think you do have it figured out.  Somewhere I thought I read that Hitech was not promoting the game as a flight sim, but was more interested in creating an environment promoting dogfights, but don't quote me   

Couldn't have said it better Quake with wings.  Don't get me wrong, I think that Hitech did the right thing, because he has to know what pays the bills. 

I think that it is up to those of us who historical interests binds us together to put our best effort into bringing more like minded folks into the fold.

Toonces, we are not quite there with daytime numbers yet but there has been a steady improvement over the last few months, that I do attribute to some hard work by those involved in remedying perceived drawbacks of the arena.

[Tango]

And what does my age have to do with anything? That's right, absolutely nothing. You are just jealous that a 22 year old kid has done more for the AvA then you ever will.

And done more to run off alot of players from the AvA.

[captain1ma]

And done more to run off alot of players from the AvA.

another country heard from! mostly they left because they get out-flown, out-manuevered, and out-gunned by one squad in particular.

everyone just hates losing to the same guys. so they leave, so be it. god forbid we should try to get better rather then run and cry.

the idea is to get people back in the arena, my jaded friend, not point out short comings. there are plenty of those to go around with everyone, myself included. So lets keep it positive.

maybe skuzzy should think about locking up this thread, as its becoming a bashing thread..........again, as usual!

[thrila]

Well i went back into the ava the other night and it was the same old insults on 200 from members from a  certain squadron.  It doesn't bother me personally, i even got chatting to them afterwards on 200 and i don't harbour any ill will towards them.   It just conveys an extremely negative image of the ava- i hadn't played many months and it was the same old nonsense that turned me away.  When there's only 20 people in an arena you are are going to shoot down/be shot down by the same people- recieving insults from a handful of people gets tiresome.  It's not the content, it's the attitude- i can understand why people would leave.

That said the fights i had in the AvA were fun, regardless if it was a 1v1, 1vmany or manyvmany.  My only other concern was the fact that at one stage i flew for ~15 mins and found no-one because everyone was in gv's, despite 20 people online.  Gv's just aren't my cup of tea.

[Tango]

Thats it Thrila. Its the higher than thou attitudes that a certain group in the AvA has that runs players off.

Then whenever someone says anything about it they come up with the same excuse, "they left because they get out-flown, out-manuevered, and out-gunned by one squad in particular".