Some ideas to discuss

[Shifty]

The problem is, you can just mute and if necessary eject someone. As there's always someone present in the Special Events during the events, it's easier, but as the AvA is 24/7 and there's not always a staff member online, it gets difficult to get to the right persons.

This is true, and I'm not just talking about behavior related issues or somebody just mouthing off. I'm refering to whatever the setup rules and spirit of the arena as well are broken. Such as guys going in during off hours and porking an entire sides radar or other disruptive behavior. They should be called out and banned as much as possible.

No we don't need a 24 hour police department that would take the fun away too, sometimes people just have a bad night. However if a member is purposely engaging in extreme behavior and a staff member is on he should correct it on the spot with a warning, if that doesn't work send the guy packing to cool his heels for a week or so.

Im still say it's a shame that this arena cannot be more populated. It has way more to do than the usual excuses I've seen such as saying people are not here because they don't get thier favorite plane all the time and everybody knows it.

[fudgums]

The whole AVA discussion is a monthly excersise in frustration. Every month the same questions are asked and every month nothing happens. How can it be that Special Events like FSO, Snap Shots, and Scenarios, can have a healthy following with their limited planesets and historical matchups, yet AVA cannot?

 One reason is the CMs in special events would not tolerate what's tolerated in the AVA. I agree with ASW if we're going to have an AVA staff they need to lead and enforce not bend not tolerate. Violation of setup rules, or behavior standards...  One warning only and you're gone for a week or two. Once back if you do it again you're gone for a couple of months. That goes for anybody and everybody friend, stranger, vet, or newbie. Put the health of the arena over the ego of the player.

Since people are thinking of name changes how about The WWII Arena. You set it up with the same FSO scenario and map and you run it for three weeks at a time. There are 500 plus people participating in FSOs now. I for one would love to have a place to go for the practice of tactics or just to see how my aircraft stacks up against the competetion. I know a few are going to say no it gets boring. These same people are the ones flying in here by themseleves because they've bored the hell out of everyone else over the years with their insistance you have to play their way. You guys should consider this and promote it to see if it flys. Get some of the FSO people in here and give them a place to practice and run strategies. You might end up getting a couple dozen converts if not more.

Somethings in the works 

[TheBug]

Detune 200, fly as you want to. Bring your friends as well.

The strongest draw of the CT and the greatest power it would have over a MA would be the sense of community it could potentially possess.  To detune is a ridiculous cure, it is a case of treating the symptom.

   

[The Fugitive]

The problem is, you can just mute and if necessary eject someone. As there's always someone present in the Special Events during the events, it's easier, but as the AvA is 24/7 and there's not always a staff member online, it gets difficult to get to the right persons.

Film the transgressions and send them off to the AvA staff. Have them look at it and take action. Maybe even post the offense, and the action taken on the boards to show they are on top of things and it will no longer be tolerated.

I haven't been in AvA in a long time. I used to pop in now and then looking for a fight, but got tired of the "attitudes" I had to put up with. The "gorilla cage" term fits very nicely. Maybe its better now, I don't know, but that is the "stigma" that the AvA has and MUST out grow before you'll see the population return. Proving that the managers are NOT going to let attitudes control the arena and its population might be a big step toward that end.

[Dawger]

I don't necessarily mean a bigger planeset, just one with a wider appeal.

I know some people love FinRus but 98% of the community at large will ignore historical setups like that. Personally, seeing a FinRus setup usually means I don't check on the AvA for a month.

2 weeks in a setup is really a minimum. For guys that fly once a week, that gives them two opportunities at any given setup. Not everyone logs in everyday.

2 weeks for a setup scheduled well in advance allows communication with squads interested in the matchup to arrange to fly in there.

I would love short icons (Actually I'm a fan of no icons and all seeing radar..the fights are pretty intense and visually stunning without icons)

I think Ack should be off because it can't be set to fire at friend and foe alike.

[Dawger]

On the player self control issue.....

I don't think those who are the problem regarding this issue even realize a problem exists.

[Panzzer]

I'm trying to address several issues with one reply...

TheBug, I wasn't serious with detuning 200, but as the game isn't as it what it used to be, the community holding the CT/AvA together isn't what it was just before...

Fugitive, you're correct, but the AvA staff still has limited access to sometimes do what needs to be done. Sending the films to the AvA staff does help, at least they have something to send to HTC...

Dawger, well, some people love different setups and if the FinRus used to be the most popular one some time ago, it should be kept in rotation. The icon range is always short in the AvA (3k enemy icons).

[flatiron1]

why not have another Battle of Britain with CO's like the time before. That was a lot of fun.

[Dawger]

Again, I'm not saying Fin Rus (or any other setup) should be out of the rotation.

But there seems to be a tendency to use more arcane setups instead of the meat and potatoes setups of WWII. I saw the same thing over in "that other game" for a while.

There should be a lineup and a scheduled rotation.

And it should progress through the war with occasional little side trips.

Here is a very loose example of a two week rotation. Some of these are impossible due to lack of aircraft but I'll put them in anyway.

Flying Tigers (China versus Japan, 1939)
Winter War (Finland versus Soviets, 1939-1940)
BlitzKrieg (May 1940)
Battle of Britain
Western Desert Campaign
Malta
Operation Barbarossa
Operation Crusader
Battle of Rabaul
Early Pacific Carrier Operations (Inclusive of Coral Sea and Midway, Aleutians campaign )
Early European Bomber Raids (to include Operation Millenium)
Desert Fox (war in north Africa, British versus Axis)
Guadalcanal and other early SW Pacific
Operation Torch (US in Morocco and
Operation Citadel (Kursk)
Operation Cartwheel (New Guinea)
Operation Husky (Sicily)
Operations Bellicose,Gomorrah, Crossbow and Hydra
Operation Goodtime (Bougainville)
Operation Shingle (Italy)
Island Hopping Campaign
The Mighty Eighth
Invasion of Normandy
Marianas Turkey Shoot
Operation Bagration
Battle of Tahi-ihantala
Leyte Gulf
Germany's last stand
Okinawa/Home Islands

That's 29 different 2 week setups that allow single battle special events to be held and varied terrains during the two weeks within a particular planeset.

It should be pared down to exactly 26 setups that rotate varied planesets for the different time periods and geographic locations so that it fills exactly one year. Then the schedule can be easily published and special events within the context of the two week setup planned. And I would start in the middle to generate interest early.

That would be the AvA i would like, a continuous and complete WWII covering as much of the war as the planeset and terrains allowed over the course of a year.

[Larry]

Problem with that is we have so many gaps in non US planesets some of those setups would just end up one fighter vs one fighter for two whole weeks. Anther big problem is maps.

[fudgums]

Flying Tigers (China versus Japan, 1939)
Winter War (Finland versus Soviets, 1939-1940)
BlitzKrieg (May 1940)
Battle of Britain
Western Desert Campaign(No Map I dont believe )
Malta
Operation Barbarossa(No Map I dont believe)
Operation Crusader
Battle of Rabaul
Early Pacific Carrier Operations (Inclusive of Coral Sea and Midway, Aleutians campaign )
Early European Bomber Raids (to include Operation Millenium)
Desert Fox (war in north Africa, British versus Axis)
Guadalcanal and other early SW Pacific
Operation Torch (US in Morocco and
Operation Citadel (Kursk)  No map
Operation Cartwheel (New Guinea)  I dont think theres a map
Operation Husky (Sicily)
Operations Bellicose,Gomorrah, Crossbow and Hydra
Operation Goodtime (Bougainville)
Operation Shingle (Italy)
Island Hopping Campaign
The Mighty Eighth
Invasion of Normandy
Marianas Turkey Shoot
Operation Bagration
Battle of Tahi-ihantala
Leyte Gulf
Germany's last stand
Okinawa/Home Islands

why not have another Battle of Britain with CO's like the time before. That was a lot of fun.

Something is in the works  

[Chilli]

I have to SCREAM NOOOOOOOOOO! to 2 week setups.  Just rewind back to the CO wars that Flatiron was talking about.  The arena got porked at least twice a week.  2 weeks is TOO LONG!  - 2 

The staff is doing an awesome job of keeping the setups fresh.  It is awesome that player input adds a different dimension to the same setups, so even during a single setup, adjustments have been made to accommodate special events which run for an evening or just to tweak the most fun out of what already exists.

As for the battles, Flatiron, if they could run in one or two hour rounds, like the Wednesday and Thursday setups do, and we had dedicated squads to participate, I agree that I would like to see another attempt at the "Chess Game" feel, continuing from week to week, with adjustments made by CO's.  What I don't want to see is anything that keeps players from changing sides to even the battle.  That should be the main difference between AvA and Special Events' Squad Operations.

Looking at the long list (thanks Dawger) my mouth waters at the thought of all the potential fights.  But after a couple of days in my P40 .......  enuf said (and I love that plane).

[TequilaChaser]

What I don't want to see is anything that keeps players from changing sides to even the battle.  That should be the main difference between AvA and Special Events' Squad Operations.

I concur............ also like to add........ when squads sometimes show up to fly in the AvsA........and hold their squad nites there. They sometimes proceed to take it to the extreme, without any thought if their opponents.........

- come in early before their official squad nite time begins...
- proceed to de-radar & disable troops or ack or supplies for their strategic benefit
- then overwhelmingly attack the other side 3/4/5/6 on 1 giving no regard to good ethics / good arena etiquette
- then proclaim "its our squad night mission" we would not fly like this on regular times BS


and sometimes certian squads in the past have done this on a regular basis not needing a "squad Nite" to masquerade behind.........


the 1 week setups work fantastic........ the AvsA staff might want to consider the thought of adding a select few more individuals to the staff to help police the arena more thoroughly.......to take control of the situation if need be......

balancing sides has always been a key component to this arena.........and unless there is some particular special event taking place, when it is low numbers in this arena there is no need for 1 side ( or squad ) to overwhelm the other......that is what makes people not want to fly in this arena...........is like bullys on the playground

1 last thing.....I have been told by numerous people that the 3 K icon range is what keeps them from playing in the AvsA on a regular basis ........ it really doesnt bother me, but this game is played mainly by older ( above 30/3 yrs old ) players...... alot of them are in their 40's/50's and their reaction times are average at best.....

I fully understand why they do not like the 3K icon range for enemy/opponent........

[Krusty]

Flying Tigers (China versus Japan, 1939)
Winter War (Finland versus Soviets, 1939-1940)
BlitzKrieg (May 1940)
Battle of Britain
Western Desert Campaign
Malta
Operation Barbarossa
Operation Crusader
Battle of Rabaul
Early Pacific Carrier Operations (Inclusive of Coral Sea and Midway, Aleutians campaign )
Early European Bomber Raids (to include Operation Millenium)
Desert Fox (war in north Africa, British versus Axis)
Guadalcanal and other early SW Pacific
Operation Torch (US in Morocco and
Operation Citadel (Kursk)
Operation Cartwheel (New Guinea)
Operation Husky (Sicily)
Operations Bellicose,Gomorrah, Crossbow and Hydra
Operation Goodtime (Bougainville)
Operation Shingle (Italy)
Island Hopping Campaign
The Mighty Eighth
Invasion of Normandy
Marianas Turkey Shoot
Operation Bagration
Battle of Tahi-ihantala
Leyte Gulf
Germany's last stand
Okinawa/Home Islands

The problem with this list (and I'm not saying the IDEA is bad, just the listed rotations) is that many of the "battles" all have the same planesets. So while there might be 5 different things with different names, it all boils down to "P-40B and F4F4 vs A6m2 and/or D3a".

Further, some of them we don't even begin to have the proper planeset for. Operation Barbarossa? We have NO Soviet planes at ALL that were around for this. We have 109F4s where most planes used by the LW were 109F-2s and 109E-7ns or E-7zs. We have no I-16s, I-153s, no LaGG-3s, not a single bloody Soviet plane at the time the LW invaded. Lend-Lease planes only came later, AFTER the initial invasion (where the majority of the Soviet Air Force, thousands upon thousands of obsolete planes, were wiped out).

So, that's just 2 examples of why I think the list is bad.

On top of that, it looks like you've tried to make it chronological. That's a bad mistake in my opinion. While you may have minor planesets, I'm doubting folks want to fly the same planes nonstop for months on end. So you might go from 1942 to 1944, to 1941, back to 1943, then jump to 1945... You spice things up that way.


Just a few thoughts.

[Dawger]

The order of rotation and length of each isn't really the important part.

The important part is a schedule that is published in advance and adhered to.

If you only one week that's fine.

If you want to skip around in the timeline thats fine too.

But a published schedule needs to occur and it needs to be adhered to. People WANT to know what to expect.

Here are a couple ideas for rotation. Come up with 26 or 52 setups. Divide them into three chronological piles, Early, Mid and Late War. Divide each pile into theaters, say three theaters just for an example that is easy to understand. Western Europe, Pacific and Eastern Front (I would have more than three I think)

And then cycle through weekly or bi-weekly, rotating time period and theater. Early Western, Mid Pacific, Late Eastern then Early Pacific, Mid Eastern, Late Western.

Devise a 6 month schedule and stick to it. Have one day special events within the context of the setup currently running.

And, yes Larry, its fairly obvious that any setup would have to be tailored to the planeset and terrains available but I used to do this in a game much more severely limited in both plane set and terrain availability than Aces High. AH looks to have a treasure trove of available toys in comparison.