2011 Jeep Grande Cherokee

[Masherbrum]

It seems like a touched a nerve there, relax, just because I'm not a Jeep fan and you are doesn't mean we have to get all angry.  It IS just a matter of opinion after all.  And this world would be a boring place if everyone agreed all the time.

You touched "nothing", you just show your lack of knowledge with your asinine statements.   Keep it up! 

[Masherbrum]

When we spend time on the beaches out in the Hamptons, you can usually find a few mid '90's vintage D-90 Defenders on the sand. You even see the occasional G-Wagon too. Nonetheless, my JK gives up nothing to the D-90 on the beach. Indeed, Jeep's electronics result in superior traction in sand... If I were to drag race one of those D-90s on the beach, my JK would kick its butt... Ditto in snow. Zero wheel spin, maximum traction. It's almost spooky. Drive-by-wire throttle. Floor the gas pedal in 10" of snow, the computer takes over power application. The LSD locks, BLD distributes torque with all four wheels getting no more power than traction will allow. Traction is adjusted 500 times a second. I'll reiterate... It is remarkable. In snow, from a standing start, my brother's 2005 TJ Rubicon can't keep up. I simply drive away, without so much as a wiggle. Meanwhile, the TJ is going sideways as much as forward, its open differentials contributing to its lack of bite (he would do better in 4-low with the diffs locked, but low range has speed limitations). The driver can't regulate power anywhere near as well as the computer can. It's like ABS in that regard, only more dramatic and vastly smarter. Like modern fighter aircraft, high tech electronics simply provide much more capability than previous generation hardware can ever manage.

As to the Discovery.. Capable, but not stellar. Needs major upgrading to get to that level. That is expensive, and repair costs for Land Rovers are very high. Better off with mid 90's YJ. Spend about $3k in suspension, wheel and tires and you have a very able rig. More importantly, you can find parts anywhere and they are far less expensive than for the Discovery. Likewise for a mid 80's CJ-7.

Some amusing D-90 videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWDv8ZQNeFk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JoTJBRIhdA&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMhOhT5nwZk&feature=related


My regards,

Widewing

I'm talking about wheeling WW, not cruising a beach where even I would still air down and 90% of people don't.   I'm talking about Rocks, Mud, off cambers, the D90 smokes Jeeps and I own a Jeep. 

[Masherbrum]

Haven't spent nearly as much as some of the Jeepies...good set of tires, different springs, rear diff has an ARB...no airlift required for this Jeep Recovery Vehicle. Maybe there's 4500 in the whole truck. But like most of the Jeep guys I know, they are only open to their rides, too bad their egos are as big as some of their tires. 

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Is that your Disco Copr?

[Widewing]

I'm talking about wheeling WW, not cruising a beach where even I would still air down and 90% of people don't.   I'm talking about Rocks, Mud, off cambers, the D90 smokes Jeeps and I own a Jeep. 

Did you watch the last video, where the Land Cruiser equaled the Defender when tested off road? Any one of my Jeeps, including the JK is much superior to a Land Cruiser. Vastly more maneuverable than either.

I'll agree that the Defender is legendary... However, technology has overtaken those old dinosaurs and you haven't been able to buy a new Defender here in more than a decade, with no prospect of one coming in the future.

As to "wheelin'", perhaps bashing down muddy trails in the wood is wheelin' in Michigan. Yet, many of the rigs built for that will positively suck on deep, soft sand. My JK is better in the sand than my totally modded CJ-5 was. How about a 200 mile expedition across the Arizona desert? That's what we're planning for the autumn of 2011. We did a similar tour in 2002, with a rented Rubi TJ (the expedition company provided the vehicles if you preferred and don't mind spending the premium $$). These days you can rent a new JK. We will drive there next time and use our own Wrangler. I'll have to rig the JK for this, not unlike this Unlimited...




My regards,

Widewing

[Masherbrum]

Did you watch the last video, where the Land Cruiser equaled the Defender when tested off road? Any one of my Jeeps, including the JK is much superior to a Land Cruiser. Vastly more maneuverable than either.

I'll agree that the Defender is legendary... However, technology has overtaken those old dinosaurs and you haven't been able to buy a new Defender here in more than a decade, with no prospect of one coming in the future.

As to "wheelin'", perhaps bashing down muddy trails in the wood is wheelin' in Michigan. Yet, many of the rigs built for that will positively suck on deep, soft sand. My JK is better in the sand than my totally modded CJ-5 was. How about a 200 mile expedition across the Arizona desert? That's what we're planning for the autumn of 2011. We did a similar tour in 2002, with a rented Rubi TJ (the expedition company provided the vehicles if you preferred and don't mind spending the premium $$). These days you can rent a new JK. We will drive there next time and use our own Wrangler. I'll have to rig the JK for this, not unlike this Unlimited...

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My regards,

Widewing

My ZJ will be fine in a Desert.   I don't understand why "sand" is an issue here?   Come to Silver Lake in Mears, Michigan and go up "test hill" which is known Worldwide.   The "old" Defenders are still proven and have no issues.

Also, lifting a Disco 3" with an Old Man Emu lift is the same price as any "Wrangler" marque.   The Caravan motor is not even close to the 3.9L V8 of the D90's and I will not even discuss it, as it doesn't need to.   My 83 CJ-7 had Front and Rear Detroit Lockers and would have had no problems on ANY surface.    There comes a point to where you "build a rig up" and become numb "to the ease" of wheeling. 

I don't understand the "bias", but I guess I don't want to even try.   I guess Cappa even "acknowledging" it, is nothing as well.   

But yes, "wheeling" in most States is not just cruising a beach.   If you break on the trail, you fix it and hope you don't break again.   Mud, tank traps, standing water, snow up to the hood, etc are what Legal Wheelers, such as myself do.   I served on the Board of Directors for the Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association and only promote Legal Wheeling.   I do drink alcohol on the trail and don't flail my arms outside of windows.   I practice what I preach because I'm a reflection as a former BoD member.   Heck, I've seen many people practice "unsafe vehicle recovery".   Most don't even realize that all you need is a stick and two straps in a pinch.      

This past January, our Club "Soldiers of Fortune Off Road" here in Michigan hosted our 3rd Annual "SnoFari" event sponsored by GLFWDA and 11 others.   We had snow depths that swallowed 35" tires and left some on 40's........pulling cable or strap.   I'm talking TJ's with 6.1's in them.   One of the participants had a ZR-2 Tracker on Dana 44's and Hummer wheels/tires with an Exo-Cage.   His 26 year old son designed it and was the talk of the 2007 United Four Wheel Drive Association Annual Meeting in Colorado.   Our event is not quite to the stature of "Sno-Blind" which is run in the same area as our event, by the Mudchuggers Jeep Club and is known throughout North America.   But our Club (avg. age of 30) is the most Active Club in the State of Michigan and we are gaining on them.   We clear 60+ miles of trail in both the Spring and Fall.   We do this because of commitment to the Hobby. 

But in closing, I offer ANYONE from this BBS the opportunity to Participate in this Event.   Registration will open soon and we have a 60 rig limit.   Dan, Nate, or anyone else.   It'll be January 9th & 10th, 2010.   

I will not allow Land Rovers to be bashed, because they are VERY capable off road rigs, Range Rover Classics included.   But the Defender's are in a class by themselves and no Jeep is close.

[5PointOh]

Is that your Disco Copr?

It was, I sold it to for the funds to build this (see below).  But I am looking for another Disco again. I enjoy projects more than anything.

[VonMessa]

Hell, getting stuck and breaking your friends' balls while you are pulling them out (or vice versa) is half the fun.

If my rig was too capable and never got stuck, or never suffered carnage on the trail then it would only be half as fun.  I would spend most of the day pulling people out.

[Masherbrum]

Hell, getting stuck and breaking your friends' balls while you are pulling them out (or vice versa) is half the fun.

If my rig was too capable and never got stuck, or never suffered carnage on the trail then it would only be half as fun.  I would spend most of the day pulling people out.

Yep.

[Widewing]

I will not allow Land Rovers to be bashed, because they are VERY capable off road rigs, Range Rover Classics included.   But the Defender's are in a class by themselves and no Jeep is close.

I completely disagree, and I'm certainly not alone..


Especially when a more road oriented Jeep JK Sahara 2.8 Diesel easily matches a brand new Defender in a head to head test off road, and clobbers it everywhere else. Read this test: http://zool.xsion.gr/blog/wp-content/uploads/JK/wranglervsdefender.pdf


My regards,

Widewing

[RipChord929]

Hell man, they all work!!! All a little different, depending on what you use it for....
There seems to be two general schools of thought, oldschool simplicity, or newstyle technowhiz...

I'm just an oldschool guy at heart, and there isn't anything else with wheels, that is narrow enough, light enough, short enough, tite turning enough, to thread the needle back and forth between the trees here... And have enough power to plow thru the heavy bush, and torque enough to pull itself out of the huge holes between the root balls.. Up and down into those stinkin holes, endlessly!!! LOL!!  A good old CJ5 is the only answer..

Seen late model rigs, get the whole wheel, steering knuckle, axle and control arms ripped completely OFF!! Or folded under.. From dropping into those holes between the roots, and the rigs momentum just keeps on goin, RIP!!! Oops!!! LOL!!!  Bigger and wider rigs, just forget it..

This is me, with my Rockstar hair!!! LOL!!!


Nice fresh 360, little cam, nice and simple, and yes the Holley has a slosh kit for no steep angle problems, LOL!


All stainless hardware, custom made dash, Qball shifter knobs, blah blah..


Honda Prelude seats are comfy, and keep a secure grip on your butt...


Of course, Little Bill will take me where NO wheeled vehicle can go!! And alot quieter while doing so!!
Got rid of my long hair last spring, wife says I look younger!!

[Masherbrum]

I completely disagree, and I'm certainly not alone..


Especially when a more road oriented Jeep JK Sahara 2.8 Diesel easily matches a brand new Defender in a head to head test off road, and clobbers it everywhere else. Read this test: http://zool.xsion.gr/blog/wp-content/uploads/JK/wranglervsdefender.pdf


My regards,

Widewing

I said the 3.9L    There is no replacement for displacement and the low end torque of that Engine.   Mind you, I'm talking say a 97 D-90.   Not whatever inline 4 or 6 they are putting in them now.   

[Widewing]

Of course, Little Bill will take me where NO wheeled vehicle can go!! And alot quieter while doing so!!
Got rid of my long hair last spring, wife says I look younger!!

Surely, Little Bill is hard to beat... Except maybe for a good Trials bike.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6730771388245386911#

My regards,

Widewing

[rstel01]

. I'll have to rig the JK for this, not unlike this Unlimited...

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My regards,

Widewing

I love those rims and got turned onto them from this "overland" JK that Mopar Underground did



They are actually a Steel Spare Tire Rim off the 06/07 Grand Cherokee. I run my Goodyear MTR/Kevlars in 305/70/17 (34 inch) on them. The rim has a recessed valve stem that rides behind the other outer holes. They weigh a ton though! Almost 70lbs per rim+the 40lbs of tire, make them a bear to get on and off. Needless to say, I welded EVO's C2 Axle Gussets to the Axle this weekend to stregnten the heck out of the "C"'s for the extra weight.

BTW, I only run 2 inches of lift with the 34's and no real issues. Granted my skids are pretty hammered, I've also peeled the diffs before up armoring them. That's an older pic with the single steering damper (I changed to a RC Twin) beacuse even with the relocation kit I used to hammer it with the frame at full travel.      

[Dadsguns]

Sold my 77 Chief Cherokee back in 2001, that thing was a tank, certainly miss taking it to the beach, in the woods camping, I was only limited by the law where I could drive it.

Seen a picture in this thread of a Cherokee and brought back some memories.

[Widewing]

Sold my 77 Chief Cherokee back in 2001, that thing was a tank, certainly miss taking it to the beach, in the woods camping, I was only limited by the law where I could drive it.

Seen a picture in this thread of a Cherokee and brought back some memories.

How's this?


My regards,

Widewing