Ords Bunker Hardness

[Vinkman]

Ords bunkers seem very easy to destroy. A simple short machine gun burst will blow one up. I think this makes it way too easy for GV to harass bases. Not TAKE bases but harass them. A single flak or Tank spawns near the base and drives over and shoots the ords out (or they are shot out by a single plane). This forces machine gun/ cannon attacks to clear him out which result in many dead planes before someone gets him.  Often a good fight between two bases can turned on the appearance of a single Wirble. The whirb start picking off fighters on take off, there no ords to stop him and multiple planes are often disctracted from getting back in the air fight focus on a lone whirb. This causes too many fighters to have to remain low at there own base, which allows the airborn enemy to migrate to the base and cap it. Or pilots are forced to get out of planes and get in GVs with the same result. Option 3 is to take off from another base (usually a sector or more away and fly back with ords, only to have the GV re-up in seconds. And the same can be said for Fleets. One fleet plane comes in and straifs out the ords, and the fleet can attack and bomb with impunity.

I understand that folks like GVs but it seems to me that the balance is out of whack when ords are so easily taken out.


does anyone else think the ords bunkers should be harder?

[LLogann]

Nope. 

Ord bunkers, same as a town building, 250 pounds of explosive. 

Now honestly, I've gone back and forth on this one.  Of all the things on the base, the ord bunkers should be a little tougher maybe, but certainly not anything like doubling it to 500lbs.  Maybe 300?  No wait, I'm arguing for the other side here..............   

Nope.

 

[Vinkman]

Nope. 

Ord bunkers, same as a town building, 250 pounds of explosive. 

Now honestly, I've gone back and forth on this one.  Of all the things on the base, the ord bunkers should be a little tougher maybe, but certainly not anything like doubling it to 500lbs.  Maybe 300?  No wait, I'm arguing for the other side here..............   

Nope.

 

Town building can be shot out with machine guns. What exactly do you mean by 'Nope'?

[LLogann]

So can Fighter Hangers...........  And every other thing in the game.

I'm just saying that bunkers, troops, fuel, town buildings are valued at 250lbs.  The .50 in an M3 can knock an ord bunker down sure, but it's going to take a while relative to 4 Hispanos.  Even say an F6F with 6 .50 cals is going to need 2 passes (depending on E & convergence of course)

So "nope" refers to the idea that they are probably tough enough.

[R 105]

Hardness of the ords bunkers don't matter much because 90% of player in AH don't even understand the importance of destroying them. They leave ords up and take a CV right up to a base and then wonder why the CV got sunk. You can save the CV or stop an attack in it's tracks by just simply porking ords at a air base and then porking the troops and supplies at the connecting V-base so the air base can't be resupplied. One P-51 can pork all ords at a larger air base or all troops at a V-base. This is even more important to do if your side is out numbered. This most times actually makes for an even bigger fur ball situations because they will be forced to use tanks in place of bombs to kill a town. This makes for better GV action while more fighters are upped to fend off IL-2s that are killing their tanks you can up a fighter to kill off the GV fighter cover. If you leave ords up they just bomb down the base kill ack and town and take the place from under you. Try this next time you want to take a CV in for a base capture or you want to save a base from being taken it works and you only need two or three heavy P-51s to do it.

R-105

[Vinkman]

So can Fighter Hangers...........  And every other thing in the game.

I'm just saying that bunkers, troops, fuel, town buildings are valued at 250lbs.  The .50 in an M3 can knock an ord bunker down sure, but it's going to take a while relative to 4 Hispanos.  Even say an F6F with 6 .50 cals is going to need 2 passes (depending on E & convergence of course)

So "nope" refers to the idea that they are probably tough enough.

With the strategic importance of Ords, 250 is not enough. You have to take all the town buildings so multiply 250lbs time 20-25 buildings.  Troops and fuel do not matter when defending the base. Ords are a key factor in the base's ability to defend itself, like hangars. They should be as tough as a hangar.  

[LLogann]

EEK...... dam you Vinkman,  , now you got me going the other way on it again............  LOL

You make a rather valid point about it.  But now how about this.....  What if we doubled/tripled the amount of ord's at every air base..........?

Either that or we make them a little bigger and make them say 1000lbs.............

<S> Vinkman <S>

[Vinkman]

Hardness of the ords bunkers don't matter much because 90% of player in AH don't even understand the importance of destroying them. They leave ords up and take a CV right up to a base and then wonder why the CV got sunk. You can save the CV or stop an attack in it's tracks by just simply porking ords at a air base and then porking the troops and supplies at the connecting V-base so the air base can't be resupplied. One P-51 can pork all ords at a larger air base or all troops at a V-base. This is even more important to do if your side is out numbered. This most times actually makes for an even bigger fur ball situations because they will be forced to use tanks in place of bombs to kill a town. This makes for better GV action while more fighters are upped to fend off IL-2s that are killing their tanks you can up a fighter to kill off the GV fighter cover. If you leave ords up they just bomb down the base kill ack and town and take the place from under you. Try this next time you want to take a CV in for a base capture or you want to save a base from being taken it works and you only need two or three heavy P-51s to do it.

R-105

I agree, in that what you describe is what ends up happenning, but I don't think that's better furballing. Good furballing is equal numbers of planes in a sustained fight over neutral territory. I think The IL-2s being attacked by bandits over their own field is Capping.  This is where the enemy is over your base vulching and picking.  20-30 pilot's fun can be affected by a single GV showing up and wreking havoc. All because ords are just too soft. Make em harder and the planes have a chance to react to the GV while they still have the ability to do so.

[Vinkman]

EEK...... dam you Vinkman,   , now you got me going the other way on it again............  LOL

You make a rather valid point about it.  But now how about this.....  What if we doubled/tripled the amount of ord's at every air base..........?

Either that or we make them a little bigger and make them say 1000lbs.............

<S> Vinkman <S>

<S> LLogan. That would work too, it's just that they would have to modify all the maps. So in the short term, toughening them up would be faster/easier.

[caldera]

make them say 1000lbs.............

That makes sense.  It is way too easy for a single plane to take out ords.  Concrete should be way tougher than the pup tents the troops are napping in.  Added to the fact that there are double the number of troop tents compared to ord bunkers (which makes it harder for the defense to pork).  It can take a single fighter well under 10 minutes to kill ords at a base but much longer for one guy to resupply the base.  It is more difficult to kill all of the enemy troop tents (compounded by the usual #s advantage the attacking force has to defend it's own fields). The current set up favors the attackers IMO.   

I fly solo 99% of the time, so I'm biased towards the defense.   

[AWwrgwy]

But, they're full of explosives.....   

The easy fix is just add more ord bunkers.  Although, I like the 300-400lbs of ordinance to kill them vs. 250.



wrongway

[Lusche]

Ords bunkers seem very easy to destroy. A simple short machine gun burst will blow one up. I think this makes it way too easy for GV to harass bases.

Before the introduction of the 37mm Il-2 and the 75mm B-25H I would have agreed with the last sentence, but now not anymore.

But I have another thought on this problem. For me it's not the fact that "only" 250lbs are sufficient to blow an ord bunker (or town building) up. A 250lbs bomb is quite an amount of *boom*. - It's the fact that cannon & MG damage is vastly scaled up vs structures: a single .50cal round is worth 1 pound of bomb damage, a 20mm round 4 pounds, a 37mm (Ostwind) 15.6

[Vinkman]

Before the introduction of the 37mm Il-2 and the 75mm B-25H I would have agreed with the last sentence, but now not anymore.

But I have another thought on this problem. For me it's not the fact that "only" 250lbs are sufficient to blow an ord bunker (or town building) up. A 250lbs bomb is quite an amount of *boom*. - It's the fact that cannon & MG damage is vastly scaled up vs structures: a single .50cal round is worth 1 pound of bomb damage, a 20mm round 4 pounds, a 37mm (Ostwind) 15.6

I'm not against having to bomb them to destroy them, even if that means 250 lbs worth, because someone still has to fly in heavy to take them out. Perhaps then, instead of upping the limit, the bullet round can not be scaled up for an ords bunker. I wonder if HTC can selectively scale them up or if all buildings need to be treated the same.

Either way, good point Lusche, that would be another way to approach the problem.

[LLogann]

Or maybe even remove the ability for anything .50 cal or smaller to cause damage..........   

Cannons, rockets or bombs only.   

[batch]

or just up a tank............ or hop in one of the field guns