HTC give us the choice!!!!!!

[Baumer]

Whatever your feeling about the new settings,it has reduced the options and taken a level of play away, of this there is no doubt.

I disagree completely, the changes did not take anything away from the game at all.

If you have chosen to no longer use NOE tactics because of the fear of being spotted, that's your fault, not HTC's. Regardless of the attack strategy you choose, the only thing that has changed is the potential to encounter a stronger defense. It's still up to the other players to actually takeoff and defend the target, either at 200 feet or 25,000 feet.

It is very clear from HiTechs responses that the decision was made in order to promote combat (between customers), it was not done to take anything away from anyone.

 

[Lusche]

I disagree completely, the changes did not take anything away from the game at all.

Wrong.

You are concentrating too much on NOE hordes. Things have changed in some ways independent from that.

[Baumer]

If you want to get pedantic (technical) Snailman, I will agree that the element of searching for the enemy has been reduced (but not eliminated).  However, with a little forethought it is still very easy to blind the enemy and mask a well planned attack. Also, it is within reason to see some changes to the MA maps with bases a little farther apart, that would bring back the radar gaps between fields.

It's interesting to me to see how this "change" is being characterized as taking away an aspect of the game. Especially when you compare this discussion to a change to the ENY system, which really does change what you can fly and when. This change was a good first step to working towards the points HiTech was trying to address, it may not be the last step either.

But the fact remains the changes to the arena do not remove any function of the game, the players reacting to the new settings are the ones that have changed.   

[Masherbrum]

Take what happened Thursday night.   Dweeb Island map is up, Rooks have TT.   A25 to the West of A22 had an NOE mission.   The Rooks could not drop FH's.   All of a sudden there is a big push "to hit the town".   I'm in range of 5 Rooks and am allowed to go North/NE for a goon.   I find the Goon landed on the beach and he is towered. 

I'll spare you the 200 whining this person did, but to the effect "When there are multiple cons at A25 to engage, why would I go "goon hunting in an La7"?   

They never got the base while I was logged in.

[ink]

Take what happened Thursday night.   Dweeb Island map is up, Rooks have TT.   A25 to the West of A22 had an NOE mission.   The Rooks could not drop FH's.   All of a sudden there is a big push "to hit the town".   I'm in range of 5 Rooks and am allowed to go North/NE for a goon.   I find the Goon landed on the beach and he is towered. 

I'll spare you the 200 whining this person did, but to the effect "When there are multiple cons at A25 to engage, why would I go "goon hunting in an La7"?   

They never got the base while I was logged in.

 

awesome

[groundfeeder]

I disagree completely, the changes did not take anything away from the game at all.

If you have chosen to no longer use NOE tactics because of the fear of being spotted, that's your fault, not HTC's. Regardless of the attack strategy you choose, the only thing that has changed is the potential to encounter a stronger defense. It's still up to the other players to actually takeoff and defend the target, either at 200 feet or 25,000 feet.

It is very clear from HiTechs responses that the decision was made in order to promote combat (between customers), it was not done to take anything away from anyone.

 

The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it . so it DID take away from the gameplay! Also the increased dar range gives even an earlier warning of the impending strike allowing the enemy to up a resistance even faster. Between the two new "improvements" the response time to an impending strike has doubled or better. The fact of the matter is, if you wanna go at 25k and waste 25 min climbing there everytime you want to take a base you will still get intercepted due to the longer dar range! Again this DID take away from tactics that can be used to take a base. high or low it has turned this into a mid alt war and a constant furball. The game has INDEED lost an aspect of the former options. As far as promoting combat........why make the town able to be captured if all you want is fighter combat??I mean no disrespect to hitech or any of its staff but i cannot see how this makes the game more enjoyable "save for a select few" for anyone!!!! Taking away options is taking them away, that cannot be sugar  coated in any way shape or form! As far as a stronger defense why couldnt they just try harder under the old rules????? we all where subject to them and we all had NOE raids. Certain people in certain countries had complained about it and we ALL know who they are.

[WMLute]

I wouldn't say that players complained about noe hoard weenies as much as felt sorry for them.

[morfiend]

 Could you please explain...

The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it


 The radar is 65 ft agl not 65 ft asl so as the terrain rises so does the radar.

 So I'd like to know how you can state this fact above.

  And promote combat it does or is your idea of combat simply shooting and bombing defenceless buildings?

   

[Lusche]

It's interesting to me to see how this "change" is being characterized as taking away an aspect of the game.

It's taking not things away from everyone, btu for some it does.. particularly for single pilots. With a single set of buffs, you could try to skip dars at least for some part of your way towards a rear target like the strats, now you are completely visible all the time. Also "mass tactics" will get ever more important due to dar coverage by several overlapping dar circles that often even extend bexond an enemy airbase.
One thing I used to do when not hunting buffs was flyign giant a horde that had a friendly base all covered, often being the only "green" pilot there vs a whole red bar, looking for hangar dropping  buffs & goons. Now quite often the horde has radar coverage over the base they are pounding, sometimes even by several different bases, from 65ft up. No way I can survive there as single con for any meaningful amount of time. That IS a change, and that took things away.  

On top of that, I find it just... wrong.. that Vbases are able to see enemy cons in the next sector right at takeoff, even though it does not "hurt" me at all - I'm more defending Vbases in tanks or wirbels than attacking them in planes.

Now I can't say at this point how much it really changes the game, how many people are being affected... it's quite subjective. However, I have the feeling that there is a greater reluctance to enter enemy airspace unless there is a reasonable amount of friendlies around. And I see much less buff guys trying their luck at the strats. And I miss a lot of the old guesswork/analysis (there is a buff in the sector, is he trying to get to AXXX, or will he turn back to drop hangars again at AXXY?

[grizz441]

Could you please explain...

The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it


 The radar is 65 ft agl not 65 ft asl so as the terrain rises so does the radar.

   

With all due respect, I personally feel it is near impossible for myself at least, to fly NOE over rugged terrain for any reasonable extend of time.  Idk, maybe I'm just a newb with no joystick control.    

[1Boner]

With all due respect, I personally feel it is near impossible for myself at least, to fly NOE over rugged terrain for any reasonable extend of time.  Idk, maybe I'm just a newb with no joystick control.    

I think it was meant to make it impossible.

I haven't tried it yet, never really was much of an noe guy myself.

However I did love coming in under the dar and popping up to surprize some cons guarding a friendly V base that was flattened, then hunting down the inevitable goon.

I also loved scanning the map for noes.

Win or lose, I liked upping a hurri 2 and hammering away all comers! Great fun.

[Baumer]

The NOE tactic cannot be used overland due to the fact the terrain wont permit it .

Thats funny, I few 3 sectors over hilly terrain (not the worst mountains but hills none the less) NOE to a base and was not intercepted (in a late war arena with over 100 players in it). There were a couple of werbi's out when I got there, but that's no different than with the old settings. So NOE is still a valid tactic and the settings did not take it away.

You simply choose to think that now that it is harder to do, it's taken away, and that is not the case.  It is your choice not to go NOE, to complain about it is simply trying to blame someone else for your decision.

An important point to remember for all the doom and gloom types about NOE, you may pop above 65 feet and show on radar. However, someone has to be looking and they have to get a radar update to see you. You do not become visible to everyone as soon as you break dar, and not everyone gets the radar updates at the same time. So if you get back down below 65 feet quickly, the dot will only be visible for a short period of time and not everyone will see it.





 

[morfiend]

With all due respect, I personally feel it is near impossible for myself at least, to fly NOE over rugged terrain for any reasonable extend of time.  Idk, maybe I'm just a newb with no joystick control.    

 Ok Grizz ya got me,personally I think 150 ft would likely be a good split between what we had and whats now but thats my thoughts and I would in no way complain about any change that promotes combat as opposed to what we had before.

  I'm sure much like you I'd have a difficult time trying to keep under the Darmbut isnt that what it was really like?

   Or maybe neither of us know how to fly....


   

[hitech]

Ok Grizz ya got me,personally I think 150 ft would likely be a good split between what we had and whats now but thats my thoughts and I would in no way complain about any change that promotes combat as opposed to what we had before.

Oh golly G why didn't make it 495 feet instead of 65, your 150 would have the same effect, I.E. no effect at all. The point is not to lower it, but to have a major impact by lowering it.

HiTEch

[Lusche]

Oh golly G why didn't make it 495 feet instead of 65, your 150 would have the same effect, I.E. no effect at all.

I think you are overestimating the skill level in the MA's

Almost everyone can stay <500 over land... but quite a few would be hard pressed to maintain <150, especially when having to change course... IMHO <100 would also drastically reduce overland NOE's, though of course not as much as 65, which is about impossible for the overwhelming majority of players to maintain for more than a few moments - myself included

I wonder what effect 100ft + larger base warning range would have on NOE's ?