Kids these days

[B-17]

Just trying to get my head around this rather vague post. I'm reading that you use your homosexuality to intimidate people. Novel idea.

novel, yes. what i meant, no. it was in response to a previous post i was unable to find in this neverending thread. no, i do not use my homosexuality to intimidate others. i try not to let that get in the way actually

[PJ_Godzilla]

novel, yes. what i meant, no. it was in response to a previous post i was unable to find in this neverending thread. no, i do not use my homosexuality to intimidate others. i try not to let that get in the way actually

You're 14, or at least that's what you said in an earlier post. Isn't that a little young to be defining a preference for fish or fowl? I mean, presumably, you've tested your hypothesis - and, in this case, before learning the basics of the scientific method.

Otherwise, don't let my earlier post or the Penguin's ridiculous knee-jerk extrapolation intimidate you. I'm not a big advocate of handing out the beatings (though some kids need to have limits set forcibly for precedent, imj). My wife, otoh, is Japanese and can be quite stern.

Me, I've been in enough cities, countries, universities, etc. that nothing surprises me so you don't need t oedit yourself for me. I just find your age to make you a bit non compes mentes on the question.

[gyrene81]

ya'll are funny...all ya'll...    especially the "spanking not allowed bunch"...       

[PJ_Godzilla]

ya'll are funny...all ya'll...    especially the "spanking not allowed bunch"...       

It's classic projection, most likely. The formerly abused see all such as abuse, and, never having seen judicious application, assume such to be impossible.

As a kid, I know I tested my Dad. He made effective use of the "tweak on the cheek" if you follow, and occasionally would break out the cane. ISYN - my grade school principle had a collection of wooden paddles. That used to be common back in the day. He was forced into retirement some time in the 80's.

Kids, boys especially, need to be confronted when they test you. To fail to do so is to send a predator out into the world. Take a look at urban gang culture and you'll see the inevitable consequence.

[CAP1]

ya'll are funny...all ya'll...    especially the "spanking not allowed bunch"...       

remember when spankings didn't used to be fun? 

[M0nkey_Man]

ive been spanked.     

I did something bad, got spanked, and never did that again lol

[dedalos]

It's classic projection, most likely. The formerly abused see all such as abuse, and, never having seen judicious application, assume such to be impossible.

So, according to some of you it is because we did not get spanked.  According to others it is because we were abused.  What ever the reason is, it is definitely not that hitting kids is wrong.   

[Anaxogoras]

I never spank my son, and never will.  The judicious application of timeouts and other techniques is so effective that the mere mention of a timeout usually corrects unwanted behavior.

Punishment of any kind has one of three justifications: Reform, Retribution, or Pacification.

Reforming punishment is meant to correct future behavior.

Retribution punishment is meant to discharge a debt owed to a victim, i.e. society, the family, the parent, etc.

Pacification punishment only aims to isolate the guilty and prevent him from causing more harm.

I think it's important to have some idea of our own intention when we punish, to have some idea of why we punish.  Different ideas about what punishment is for might lead to different punishments being most appropriate.

[PJ_Godzilla]

So, according to some of you it is because we did not get spanked.  According to others it is because we were abused.  What ever the reason is, it is definitely not that hitting kids is wrong.   

I think physically abusing kids is wrong but would never say unconditionally that physically punishing a kid is wrong. In some cases, kids can be aggressive and violent. Such conduct needs sharp and rapid correction - and by means that get their immediate attention. I don't think you can say that it's flatly off the table. A smart kid will game such a foolish negotiating position. 

[gyrene81]

I never spank my son, and never will.  The judicious application of timeouts and other techniques is so effective that the mere mention of a timeout usually corrects unwanted behavior.

*example* starts playing with matches because they're fascinating...figures out that there are some things in the garage that make big flames...after the first couple of incidents that averted major disaster and you gave him the appropriate time outs...one of his buddies convinces him to "try it on something else"...shed burns down and almost takes the house with it...

i suppose a time out would put an end to that nonsense... 


*example* obtains a pocket knife (gift or whatever)...learns that it can do some really fun stuff with wood with some parental guidance and rules...fascination with carving wooden objects sets in...determines that it wouldn't hurt anything to carve on a table (any table in the house)...tries it out on the drywall...maybe even some fabric covered furnishings...when confronted about the damage replies "i was bored"...

yup, a time out would put an end to that... 

Punishment of any kind has one of three justifications: Reform, Retribution, or Pacification.

Reforming punishment is meant to correct future behavior.

can be accomplished with equal measure of parental guidance and corporal punishment if the guidance is continually ignored...fear is a powerful tool that can keep an individual from doing something harmful to themselves and/or others...when applied appropriately.

Retribution punishment is meant to discharge a debt owed to a victim, i.e. society, the family, the parent, etc.

no such thing for actual parents...

Pacification punishment only aims to isolate the guilty and prevent him from causing more harm.

see reform punishment...add that unfortunately for many in our society where current "popular lifestyles" that were once shunned are embraced fully, it is necessary to apply larger measure of corporal punishment than would be required for the majority.

[crazyivan]

Poke a panda, get ten years in prison,
Poke a kid, nothing happens

-Penguin

Panda poke's you, he goes to the zoo.

[dedalos]

*example* starts playing with matches because they're fascinating...figures out that there are some things in the garage that make big flames...after the first couple of incidents that averted major disaster and you gave him the appropriate time outs...one of his buddies convinces him to "try it on something else"...shed burns down and almost takes the house with it...

i suppose a time out would put an end to that nonsense... 


*example* obtains a pocket knife (gift or whatever)...learns that it can do some really fun stuff with wood with some parental guidance and rules...fascination with carving wooden objects sets in...determines that it wouldn't hurt anything to carve on a table (any table in the house)...tries it out on the drywall...maybe even some fabric covered furnishings...when confronted about the damage replies "i was bored"...

yup, a time out would put an end to that... 

can be accomplished with equal measure of parental guidance and corporal punishment if the guidance is continually ignored...fear is a powerful tool that can keep an individual from doing something harmful to themselves and/or others...when applied appropriately.

no such thing for actual parents...

see reform punishment...add that unfortunately for many in our society where current "popular lifestyles" that were once shunned are embraced fully, it is necessary to apply larger measure of corporal punishment than would be required for the majority.

It is just your inability to understand that other methods work better.  Your parents parents probably went to the dentist without using any anesthesia.  I guess since they did it, it must be the better way and the way that works.

The only difference between other methods of punishment and hitting is that the parent did not have to make the effort to parent and also got revenge. 

[dedalos]

I never spank my son, and never will.  The judicious application of timeouts and other techniques is so effective that the mere mention of a timeout usually corrects unwanted behavior.

Punishment of any kind has one of three justifications: Reform, Retribution, or Pacification.

Reforming punishment is meant to correct future behavior.

Retribution punishment is meant to discharge a debt owed to a victim, i.e. society, the family, the parent, etc.

Pacification punishment only aims to isolate the guilty and prevent him from causing more harm.

I think it's important to have some idea of our own intention when we punish, to have some idea of why we punish.  Different ideas about what punishment is for might lead to different punishments being most appropriate.

Someone should make this post a sticky and on its own thread 

[gyrene81]

It is just your inability to understand that other methods work better.  Your parents parents probably went to the dentist without using any anesthesia.  I guess since they did it, it must be the better way and the way that works.

The only difference between other methods of punishment and hitting is that the parent did not have to make the effort to parent and also got revenge. 

you are once again, quite wrong...you're one of those 60minutes/48hours is 100% true people aren't you? that's where all this "alternative" parenting started going into full swing out of the hippie communities...because of those 2 shows and the way they stretched the truth about children being physically abused.

i've always been amazed at how people without children managed to convince a large part of the parental population that alternative parenting was the only way to raise children...yet the statistics show that the first generation of those raised under those concepts have more social problems than their parents who were raised with corporal punishment did at the same age...higher crime, higher suicide, higher drug use...look it up, if the studies weren't buried.

when i was a kid...the most dangerous thing on the playground was a pocket knife, and no one pulled one on you for fear of corporal punishment at school and at home...now 12 year olds raised by the "time out" generations are carrying guns and shooting adults...dealing drugs...bullying people live and in person as well as on the web...

now, there is a limit to how corporal punishment should be administered...one rule that few adults know or even understand is "never hit a child when you're angry"...my generation failed to comprehend that rule and now the "here's a cookie 2 minute time out stupid nanny" generation is making it difficult for reasonably sane parents to actually raise their children to be responsible adults.

[dedalos]

when i was a kid...the most dangerous thing on the playground was a pocket knife, and no one pulled one on you for fear of corporal punishment at school and at home...now 12 year olds raised by the "time out" generations are carrying guns and shooting adults...dealing drugs...bullying people live and in person as well as on the web...

  Ahh, I see putting labels on me and trying to fit me in some category some how will help your argument.  You can't even see what is wrong with what you wrote up there.  You don't pull a knife one someone because of respect towards life.  Because it is wrong. etc.  In your world, you only don;t do something because you may get punished.  So, if no one would find out, it is ok to pull that knife since there wont be any punishment.

That been said, both my girls go to school caring AK47s in their back packs, shooting at adults from their bikes and dealing drugs in their classrooms.  Where the hell do you leave? lol.  Time to move bud 

You guys take one example and apply it to every kid in the world.  If your kid needs to be treated like a circus animal in order to know not to pull a knife on someone, YOU have failed as a parent.

Fear does not equal Respect
Respect stays with them for ever.  Fear does not.