rook/nit alliance

[JUGgler]

Actually I'm not completely disagreeing. There are some changes in new player's backgrounds and motivations for playing this game, but the results are more subtle. The percentage of players looking just for another game compared to those coming here for their genuine love of WW2 aviation will undoubtly rise.

And as much as I do like the almost unlimited freedom of sandbox MA gameplay for myself, I'm sometimes wondering if the future for the game does indeed lie in a more *gasp* structured, strategic arena 



Oh, and another statistical tidbit on base captures: For many years, we had between 25 and 30 played manhours and about 90 to 120 deaths for each base capture in the LWMA. Today it's about 50 hours and 200 deaths!  You do have to fight more to get a base.

How can you be sure it's 'fighting more"? It could just as easily be the ability level being much lower has created "a barrel of fish" to steal a phrase, which requires a higher # of attackers. More fish in a barrel does not constitute "HIGHER QUALITY" play 

Anyway my comments are not about base taking, I actually think base takers add dimension and goals to the game. But then what? Rinse and repeat somewhere else? Base takers also do not account for the tremendous decline in quality furballing. The furball has also suffered the fate of the base taking strategy. Bring more squadies to the furball hording as much as you can, HOing as much as you can, as quickly as you can to get your  ame in lights<-- this is the ever creeping death of quality.


I actually think removing the system messages for kills and who you killed would go very far to bringing the quality back. At the minimum it would sift out the chaf 



JUGgler

[Lusche]

How can you be sure it's 'fighting more"? It could just as easily be the ability level being much lower has created "a barrel of fish" to steal a phrase, which requires a higher # of attackers. More fish in a barrel does not constitute "HIGHER QUALITY" play 

You are mixing two things, quantity and "quality". A fight is simply hostile interaction between players, with (usually) going down in the end. And yes, I can say there is more fighting, because the number of kills per capture is significantly higher, and the number of base captures per player is significantly lower. So yes, there is more fight happening for each base, and there much less sneaking of bases happening today than in the past 4-5 years. That's a result how bigger towns and removal of a second arena during daytime

The "quality" is just a very ambiguous tag that eludes any clear definition, and can hardly be proven or disproven in any way.

[JUGgler]

You are mixing two things, quantity and "quality". A fight is simply hostile interaction between players, with (usually) going down in the end. And yes, I can say there is more fighting, because the number of kills per capture is significantly higher, and the number of base captures per player is significantly lower. So yes, there is more fight happening for each base, and there much less sneaking of bases happening today than in the past 4-5 years. That's a result how bigger towns and removal of a second arena during daytime

The "quality" is just a very ambiguous tag that eludes any clear definition, and can hardly be proven or disproven in any way.

Well I'm not interested in arguing with you snail, but I would say anyone who has been around for some time knows what "quality" game interaction is, and I will add that for most of these folks the "quality" measured if only in ones own thoughts is the same, or very similar 

    




JUGgler

[The Fugitive]

I wouldn't say there is more fighting for a base, I would say there is more killing. There is a difference.

5 guys swooping back and forth clubing 30 baby seals doesn't constitute more "fighting". That's where the "quality" of the fights comes in. Sure I can club baby seals, but where's the fun in that.

[coombz]

The hording is everywhere. There is no need for "base taking" to generate a horde. In TT where "good" furballing and fights are sadly a thing of the past. Yesterday was no different, even though there were "few" in TT those "few" played toward the lowest standard dragging the quality of gaming into the abyss of lame!

translation -

"Last night in Tanktown i was killed over and over and over. I had a good whine about it on 200, and everyone predicted that I would soon whine about it on the BBS. I wouldn't want to disappoint anyone so here it is..."

  

I got killed over and over in TT last night myself        Soulyss, Banshee5, Sidious and everyone else who was handing me my  

[Lusche]

I wouldn't say there is more fighting for a base, I would say there is more killing. There is a difference.

5 guys swooping back and forth clubing 30 baby seals doesn't constitute more "fighting".

Wouldn't that result in a change of kill distribution among the population, ie: a smaller number of players getting a higher share of the kills?

[RoGenT]

I think every country is going to feel this way no matter what your logo is going to be. The rooks and knights have one thing in common though; we like to shoot down vtards 

[The Fugitive]

I don't see why. All sides horde, all sides have small defensive forces, and all defensive forces get tired of dieing to the horde so I would think the players rotate in and out of that defensive group pretty quickly spreading the numbers out.

The point is, it's still not a fight. See vNUKS film posted in that other thread. Yes there was gun fire, planes in the air, and one guy got shot down, but it still wasn't a fight.

[IrishOne]

translation -

"Last night in Tanktown i was killed over and over and over. I had a good whine about it on 200, and everyone predicted that I would soon whine about it on the BBS. I wouldn't want to disappoint anyone so here it is..."

 

don't be a tard.   if you don't know what the man is really talking about, don't comment on it.   it's pretty clear you have no freaking clue.


what he is trying to say is this:  of course it takes more player deaths to take a base now, because the average skill of the player base has gone waaaay down.  i see no confusion of quality and quantity.  it takes a larger quantity to capture a base because the overall quality of the individual pilot is in decline.  the lemmings are interested in nothing more than instant gratification, i.e. throwing themselves at a base en masse until it's overrun, no matter how many times you die.   funny thing is, these are the same players who refuse to fight you because *gasp!* they might die.          there are those who know EXACTLY what Jug is referring to when he speaks of quality, even if it can't be put into exact words. 

[Lusche]

don't be a tard.   if you don't know what the man is really talking about, don't comment on it.   it's pretty clear you have no freaking clue.


what he is trying to say is this:  of course it takes more player deaths to take a base now, because the average skill of the player base has gone waaaay down.  

So the average skill level stayed the same for years and all of a sudden, from one tour to the next is suddenly dropped like a stone? 

I don't think you can deny changed town layouts and the introduction of a small offpeak arena at the same time having something to do with that

[68ZooM]

Whats long gone is the multiple small fights ALL over the Map, You know when people wasn't afraid of dying or what their score(gasp) was.  Now those have been replaced with massive dar bar versus dar bar, Then you try to start another fight somewhere else on the Map to spread out the fighting and guess what happens? People see another fight and depending on how their doing in the battle will either stay where their at or come to where your at and soon it's massive dar bar versus massive dar bar again. Rinse and repeat most of the time, on occasion you'll find real fun fights where the numbers are low and even

[Butcher]

I don't see why. All sides horde, all sides have small defensive forces, and all defensive forces get tired of dieing to the horde so I would think the players rotate in and out of that defensive group pretty quickly spreading the numbers out.

The point is, it's still not a fight. See vNUKS film posted in that other thread. Yes there was gun fire, planes in the air, and one guy got shot down, but it still wasn't a fight.

Goes back to the Quality vs Quantity, Quality pilots enjoy the odds against them knowing it balances itself out, fact any decent pilot can take on 2-3 now a days and come out. However there's a higher trend of "Quantity" to offset the Quality, there's the main reason for the hordes. Its just gotten so bad to the point where Quantity relies on smashing an entire base dead so nobody can up. Nothing against those specific bishops that run missions like this, but in all honesty its brought the game to a pretty low period.

Only once I seen a mission where buffs were escorted and the target didn't matter, and people advertised on 200, thus scrambling fighters to intercept and nice furball brewed out of it.

Don't even see any classic fighter sweeps anymore, its all about loading up 30 planes to the max and lawn darting into hangers to drop a base.
However in the long run its just going to dwindle down, Quality will grow less and less, where Quantity will continue to grow, hopefully the game play doesn't change to much  in the future to offset this.

[coombz]

don't be a tard.   if you don't know what the man is really talking about, don't comment on it.   it's pretty clear you have no freaking clue.


what he is trying to say is this:  of course it takes more player deaths to take a base now, because the average skill of the player base has gone waaaay down.  i see no confusion of quality and quantity.  it takes a larger quantity to capture a base because the overall quality of the individual pilot is in decline.  the lemmings are interested in nothing more than instant gratification, i.e. throwing themselves at a base en masse until it's overrun, no matter how many times you die.   funny thing is, these are the same players who refuse to fight you because *gasp!* they might die.         there are those who know EXACTLY what Jug is referring to when he speaks of quality, even if it can't be put into exact words.  

Well I was in TT last night for a 'few' hours so I did know what he was referring to

I can't argue about the hordes of lemmings...as I am one (though not in the base taking sense)

[321BAR]

ironic... i've flown this game for 7 years under multiple names. I've always found a fight. Never missed one either...

[Bruv119]

ahhh country loyal paranoia   love it.