P51D vs Yak9U

[Widewing]

Monday is the best night for me.  Say 9 pm eastern?

Sounds good to me... Meet me in the TA. Look for TredLite on the roster.

Here's a film of Gixer and me dueling in Yak-9Ts in a cage match. This was done before the latest map/graphic updates, so keep that in mind as the boundaries may have changed...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ltaxbkrai269bzk/GixerLast.ahf

[RELIC]

Never flown a cage match but sounds like fun.  CYA then.

[FireDrgn]

On paper, but not in the game, and it depends on who is flying.[/color]  I share the view of BigR, and have done it many times.  The 51 is very versatile and can stall fight a Yak quite well, even at slow speeds.

  Negative  you not fighting a Yak9u your fighting a pilot in a Yak big differance. Which is what you actually said first. Nose up the Yak9u will tear the 51 an new hole every time.  51 has to keep it fast and nose down .

[BoilerDown]

All in all, the 'clout' around 109s is more due to the pilots than to the plane, just be thankful grizz wasn't flying p40Bs, or everyone would be claiming they are 'uber' too.

That's misleading because the K4 has climb and speed unmatched by anything unperked in the game.  Some planes are good in that they have something over every other plane, be it turn, or speed, or what have you.  But the K4 has two things over every other plane, speed and acceleration at Main Arena altitudes.  What makes the K4 such an easy choice is that it doesn't matter what everyone else is flying, the K4 is better than it in the same two ways, only the degree of better is different.  So these pilots choose it for its perk farming ability (thanks to its oddly high base ENY), the ability to leave any situation that isn't in their favor, and the ability to prevent anyone else from running away when the situation is in their favor.

So no, their choice of the K4 is not an accident or coincidence.  Its a calculated decision, and they wouldn't be as dominant in any other ride, because they couldn't choose to leave any fight when the odds turn in another ride.


Now that I got that off my chest, Steve used to always say that the Yak-9U was a P-51 killer.  I know when I fly a Yak I look for P-51s in particular.

[Ardy123]

That's misleading because the K4 has climb and speed unmatched by anything unperked in the game.

Thats not true most of the time(when considering where most AH fights are at)... here are some examples

k4 vs spit 16 (almost identical climb)


k4 vs la7 (la7 is faster at most common AH alts)

[Noir]

the K4 is one of (if not THE) most survivable plane ingame, La7's can be problematic tho. There is nothing underdog about it. Back to the subject I agree that yaks have to fight nose up and use their superior climb/acceleration and they will beat the P51. The matchup is interresting, so is the K4/yak9u matchup!

[Ardy123]

the K4 is one of (if not THE) most survivable plane ingame, La7's can be problematic tho.

The k/d stats don't support your claim...

The most survivable plane is the p38-J or the TA-152.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326962.0.html

[Krusty]

the K4 is one of (if not THE) most survivable plane ingame

There is no way you can back up such a boast or even track the stats accurately enough to qualify it. Most survivable how? If you run from fights? In that case there are tons faster than it. It's not the most manueverable, and not the fastest, it can't out-climb spits in the vert, nor can it out dive ponies to egress. It's a solid plane, to be fair, but it is not uber. It has many flaws that other planes can (and do!) exploit on a daily basis. Even the 109F-4 might be a better survivable fighter, since what it cannot out run or outclimb it can easily out-turn and out-shoot.

I'm not saying the previous post was wrong where it said "the choice of the 109K4 was not by accident" -- I totally agree. They chose it because they know their tricks in it. They know the 1-trick-pony moves in it that catch folks off-guard. They don't work all the time, but when they do the fight is over and that's all they care about (sometimes -- I don't mean to pick on specific pilots).

So much like folks that do certain moves in the P-38, they know "their" tricks... Even if they are simple tricks, or if they are lame tricks, whatever they are... They know them for that plane, and they know that before you can figure out the trick they'll have got their instant gratification with your name in the kill buffer. That doesn't mean the plane is uber, just that they've practiced it.

[killnu]

Its a calculated decision, and they wouldn't be as dominant in any other ride,

Oh really?

You are saying the plane (K4) is the reason they are dominant?  I could not disagree with you more.  It is absurd.

[Noir]

The k/d stats don't support your claim...

The most survivable plane is the p38-J or the TA-152.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,326962.0.html

I think the stat to look up in that case would be the ratio of landed sorties...but we all know what stats mean...

In a k4 if you can't out turn it you can outrun it, if you can't outrun it you can out accelerate it or outclimb it, it is in a sweet spot where it has an advantage over most of the plane set and is pretty high in my tier list

[Widewing]

We had our cage match last night, although Relic had already been flying P-51D vs Yak earlier in the TA with a squadie. In each case the result was that the P-51D hasn't a chance, regardless of who flies it. This is a function of the Yak-9U having the same turn radius clean as the P-51D does with full flaps. In a stall fight, that's an insurmountable problem. The Yak driver can elect to use his flaps to get easy angles, or keep them up to dominate the vertical. No doubt that a P-51D pilot who elects to dump flaps and maneuver can catch an unsuspecting Yak pilot flat-footed. That is a common experience, because so many P-51 pilots would rather run than knife fight.

[Dead Man Flying]

You are saying the plane (K4) is the reason they are dominant?  I could not disagree with you more.  It is absurd.

I think what he's saying is that the K4 isn't the sort of "experten" plane that some make it out to be.  And it's not - it's got a lot of excellent qualities to it that make it a very formidable foe in the hands of an experienced pilot.  When you're talking about guys like Grizz, they obviously understand how to fly just about anything and would probably excel in any plane of their choosing.  Thus the choice of a 109K4 is no accident - it's extremely lethal with good aim, it has superb climb and acceleration, and you can float it at nearly 0mph in the vertical with nice and usable stall characteristics.  It's no Spit XVI, but it's pretty good in a late war setting.  In the hands of a well-practiced expert, it's phenomenal.

The idea that Grizz would do as well in a P40B is, well, funny.  He'd probably do better than just about anyone else in a P-40B, but he wouldn't do better than himself in a 109K4.

[killnu]

I can agree with that.  That makes much more sense than how I read it.  It is a plane that gives you options.

[Debrody]

Jak, P51..  2 planes from the most boring kind: come at 20k, BnZ as long as i dont run outta fuel or dive to the deck and "excend" as long as they dont find a spit to help them.

As for the K4, Levi is right, a top10 pilot in a k4 can be very successful. It just takes some skill to use your whole plane, not only its engine power (rope run rope run...). It has the tater. The pony pilots are jelous to the 109 ones couse they kill them with one ping... true. I was flying an f4u yesterday, what has the same guns as the pony. Was ridiculously easy to get kills, even from 600 out. In the K4 i dont even fire if the opponent is farther than 300-350.
It isnt without a reason that the majority of the ACM wizards are flying the 109. Its stability allows the pilot to pull moves other planes cant even dream about.
The 109 is very strong on some aspects, also very weak in others. Not nearly as good all around as the spit/f4u/lala.

[BigR]

Jak, P51..  2 planes from the most boring kind: come at 20k, BnZ as long as i dont run outta fuel or dive to the deck and "excend" as long as they dont find a spit to help them.

As for the K4, Levi is right, a top10 pilot in a k4 can be very successful. It just takes some skill to use your whole plane, not only its engine power (rope run rope run...). It has the tater. The pony pilots are jelous to the 109 ones couse they kill them with one ping... true. I was flying an f4u yesterday, what has the same guns as the pony. Was ridiculously easy to get kills, even from 600 out. In the K4 i dont even fire if the opponent is farther than 300-350.
It isnt without a reason that the majority of the ACM wizards are flying the 109. Its stability allows the pilot to pull moves other planes cant even dream about.
The 109 is very strong on some aspects, also very weak in others. Not nearly as good all around as the spit/f4u/lala.

True Debrody, 50cals are easy to hit with, but the F4u is a much better gun platform than the mustang. It pulls lead so much better, and is also able to make tiny adjustments while you are slow that the 51 just cant make. I'm not really complaining..i usually have no trouble in the mustang hitting stuff. Although, I do find it much easier in the F4.