P51D vs Yak9U

[dedalos]

Heya Ded!

The great thing about cage matches is that they are a great de-liar of stall fighting. I started doing this a few years ago after attempting to duel Gixer, who would extend half way to Australia rather than maneuver fight in close. The cage match doesn't allow you to get any further away than 800 to 1,000 yards. In short, you can't reset the fight without cooperation from the other guy. It forces one to extract all the plane has, flying very close to a stall all of the time. In this environment, the P-51 wallows badly. All the Yak driver need do it take the fight vertical. The Yak can take it vertical because it accelerates better, building speed quicker and converting that speed into altitude.

Let's assume that the pilots are reasonably equal.... Then it truly doesn't matter who is flying the P-51, the Mustang will lose in the above format.

Hey there,

I guess this is my point about how there are so many variables including the pilots personality that will influence the results.  I did not assume a controlled environment when I wrote my post but even in there, I would be dead or have killed the yak before any thoughts about going vertical would come into play.

[dedalos]

But you had to HO for the win.

ack-ack

Heh, we have to try that 75mm HOing again sometime lol

[JOACH1M]

Does Grizz even play anymore?

Serious question.

[FLOTSOM]

Does Grizz even play anymore?

Serious question.

he is in and out, RL and the monotony of the same ole same ole of the cartoon horde have put him off his game a bit. but he has said he may return soon.

[pervert]

I am confused.  What makes him more right than me?  It is one mans opinion and he should not be saying "regardless who is flying the plane" since there are a lot of things to consider in a fight like that.  Even the personality of a person comes into play and I am pretty sure, he has not met everyone.

I'd say me in a 51 vs me in Yak, me in a 51 will win.  And I can back that statement since I do know "me".  The rest is speculation.

I'd have to agree with ded here, a more realistic statement that can be true of any fight would be who gets who in guns threat first and burning their E ie who would win the merge in this situation.

[mechanic]

I agree with Ded. Lengro and I did Yak vs P51 a couple of days ago. The P51 was the boss of that fight no doubt, the only chance the Yak had was in creating an E advantage (due to the p51 burning E in tight turns by choice) and wearing the pony down with BnZ. Anecdotal evidence, I realise, but I agree with Ded either way.

[RELIC]

I agree with Ded. Lengro and I did Yak vs P51 a couple of days ago. The P51 was the boss of that fight no doubt, the only chance the Yak had was in creating an E advantage (due to the p51 burning E in tight turns by choice) and wearing the pony down with BnZ. Anecdotal evidence, I realise, but I agree with Ded either way.

Try it again using the "cage match" rules.  As much as I hate to say it, the Yak dominates the Pony in that situation.

[FireDrgn]

I agree with Ded. Lengro and I did Yak vs P51 a couple of days ago. The P51 was the boss of that fight no doubt, the only chance the Yak had was in creating an E advantage (due to the p51 burning E in tight turns by choice) and wearing the pony down with BnZ. Anecdotal evidence, I realise, but I agree with Ded either way.

I think we all agree here the 51 has to keep it fast. It can dictate the fight in that situation. I dont think anyone disagrees with that.

What two ways do you aggree with Ded about?

[Widewing]

Try it again using the "cage match" rules.  As much as I hate to say it, the Yak dominates the Pony in that situation.

Agree... They should try it. This is a fist fight in a phone booth. You'll never see much more than 200 mph, and that's only on the initial merge. This type of fight is as much about low speed handling as it is skill. The P-51 is not a stall fighter and it will be very evident in a cage match.

[prono]

I agree with Ded. Lengro and I did Yak vs P51 a couple of days ago. The P51 was the boss of that fight no doubt, the only chance the Yak had was in creating an E advantage

Films or it didn't happen 

I guess this is my point about how there are so many variables including the pilots personality that will influence the results.  I did not assume a controlled environment when I wrote my post but even in there, I would be dead or have killed the yak before any thoughts about going vertical would come into play.

As always in Plane vs Plane thread we go to Pilot vs Pilot thing. 

Story:
Before last scenario I had DA training Spit9 vs 109G6 with top 109 stick. First 6 fights i got owed. Then I started to wining. After 10th I was seal clubbing him.
I found out how counter his merges and tricks. Then I switched to 109 and I was owed again no matter how long I tried.
I knew what he is going to do but couldn't make it better and this time my plane was not making up for my worse flying.

My point is:
In 500 co E fights ( no matter cage or bracket rules ) Dedalos in P-51D vs Dedalos in Yak9U last 100 fights and every next one Yak is the winner.
It's hard to find maneuver that Yak can't do better in twins duel.

[dedalos]

Agree... They should try it. This is a fist fight in a phone booth. You'll never see much more than 200 mph, and that's only on the initial merge. This type of fight is as much about low speed handling as it is skill. The P-51 is not a stall fighter and it will be very evident in a cage match.

OK, this is getting silly.  I am sure I can set up a scenario where plane A always kills plane B.  That was not the original question and I don't see how the "cage match" dictates that a Yak will always kill the 51 no matter who the pilot is.

[katanaso]

OK, this is getting silly.  I am sure I can set up a scenario where plane A always kills plane B.  That was not the original question and I don't see how the "cage match" dictates that a Yak will always kill the 51 no matter who the pilot is.

It might've turned into that scenario since the term "Stall fight" was used early in this thread.

I'll happily take on any Yak, heck most anything, even if I'm at 200ias, as long as I have some altitude to work with.  A fight at 5k or 10k is a lot different than a fight at 1k or less. 

[mechanic]

FireDrgn, I agree with Ded in that if it was me in a p51 vs me in a yak the p51 would win everytime.

[FireDrgn]

FireDrgn, I agree with Ded in that if it was me in a p51 vs me in a yak the p51 would win everytime.

Interesting concept. Your argument is not possible. No where for me to go with that.  L8r

[Shane]

Interesting concept. Your argument is not possible. No where for me to go with that.  L8r

He's saying staright up plane vs plane and flown properly, the pony will win.

I'm not so sure. People seem to disregard the one appealing trait of the yak9U is its speed. The biggest drawback is ammo and ballistics, but that matters less in a 1 v 1. Over 18k the pony will win. Under 18k, there's no clear cut winner.

Around 8k their respective performance is comparable, with the yak having the edge in acceleration and mil power. If they both go to flaps in a scissors, it will belong to the yak once he uses the vertical. The pony will have to rely on proper use of wep. Both have the ability to extend from the other.

Myself in yak vs myself in pony?  Could go either way.