How to save someone from the "chemtrail" hoax....

[cpxxx]

There was a report recently that conspiracy fans tend to have an excess of dopamine in their brains. This leads them to see patterns where there are none. Nothing will divert them from this belief. If your friend is of this type, there is nothing you can do for him unless you can reduce his dopamine levels. You'll find he believes in other conspiracy theories too. Fake moon landings, 9/11, alien abductions etc.

If on the other hand he's one of those people who came across the idea and found it plausible, because of course superficially some of it is plausible if you don't know the facts behind contrails. You might have a chance of talking him out of it. But it will be tough because it's a complex subject and there's always something hard to explain.

But if you like you can have great fun with it. I remember a group from a pilot forum started accessing a chemtrail forum. Some tried to explain the science but just got banned. Eventually we just kept re-registering and stirring them up. I was actually accused of being in the pay of the US government and was one of those pilots involved in the spraying. If only! If anyone in the US government is reading this, please PM me. I'm ready to spray those nuts!

I also came across a youtube video of what was identified as an Air France jet 'spraying' Ireland. When I commented that it was unlikely the French would be spraying Ireland. It got very spooky when OP began to send me PM, addressing me by my first name and accusing me of being one of the pilots involved.  
But I have to say the French don't pay nearly as well as the US. So no way would I work for them.  

[rpm]

I remember watching a moon landing conspiracy show where the theorists proof was a flag waving with no wind, no person there to take the photograph and vacuum would have made their suits swell so much hey couldn't move.

The counter was a shaking pole the flag was hung from, a LM mounted camera and showing how the suits were designed to hold their form. Plus they had Buzz Aldren saying "I was there!"

[eagl]

What causes that?

Physics.

[Zacherof]

I've met a guy who thinks the holocoust never happened and I hamve friends who swear to god 9/11 is a hoax or a planned action by the goverment.

[SkyRock]

Why should he post it? So a bunch of mouthy a-holes can pig pile him?

I have a few conversations with people about the chem/contrail thing. One thing I have noticed, or maybe didn't notice before, was how long some contrails hang in the air. What is the "life expectancy" for a contrail anyway? I've seen planes at lower altitudes leave huge contrails that hang there for well over a hour while planes at higher altitudes have their contrails dissipate soon after they appear. What causes that?

Different humidity at different altitudes.... the higher the humidity, the longer the trail will linger.... also temp is a factor...

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Different humidity at different altitudes.... the higher the humidity, the longer the trail will linger.... also temp is a factor...

And the amount of barium 

[VonMessa]

And the amount of barium 

Along with the amount of reefer being smoked, I would imagine...

[saggs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding


Your friend is not exactly insane, but they are not doing it to hurt anyone. They are doing it to keep food on your table by diverting water to areas that are in severe drought.
=======================================


Cloud seeding, a form of intentional weather modification, is the attempt to change the amount or type of precipitation that falls from clouds, by dispersing substances into the air that serve as cloud condensation or ice nuclei, which alter the microphysical processes within the cloud. The usual intent is to increase precipitation (rain or snow), but hail and fog suppression are also widely practiced in airports.
This image explaining cloud seeding shows the chemical either silver iodine or dry ice being dumped onto the cloud which then becomes a rain shower. The process shown in the upper right is what is happening in the cloud and the process of condensation to the introduced chemicals.
Sources for image: http://www.fletcherboland.com/photos/mountains/11.php

The most common chemicals used for cloud seeding include silver iodide and dry ice (solid carbon dioxide). Liquid propane, which expands into a gas, has also been used. This can produce ice crystals at higher temperatures than silver iodide. The use of hygroscopic materials, such as salt, is becoming more popular[citation needed] after promising research.[1]

Seeding of clouds requires that they contain supercooled liquid water—that is, liquid water colder than zero degrees Celsius. Introduction of a substance such as silver iodide, which has a crystalline structure similar to that of ice, will induce freezing nucleation.



Are they dropping chemicals, yes. They are therefor chemtrails, yes.

No one is denying that there is cloud seeding, and it is certainly not secretive at all.  A quick google search will bring up several cloud seeding/weather mod companies, all eager for business.

There is a big difference between cloud seeding and this chemtrail conspiracy though.

-1st:  To "seed" a cloud, there must first BE a cloud.  You will not see them cloud seeding on a blue skies day.  The process only serves to give the moisture in a cloud a particle to latch onto so it will grow large enough to fall.  It DOES NOT make clouds.

-2nd:  Cloud seeding is done at much lower altitudes, then the altitudes where contrails are created... ie In the clouds.

-3rd:  Most cloud seeding planes are not passenger or cargo jets.  They are usually light singles or twins.

-4th:  Cloud seeding is usually done by the burning of silver iodine flares (the smoke containing the nuclei for raindrops to form on) not spraying anything.  And even if you could see the trail of smoke (which you wouldn't because they're flying in the clouds remember) it would look noting at all like a contrail/chemtrail.


Cloud seeding is an accepted agricultural process that has happened for decades, there is nothing secretive or conspiratorial about it.  I is by and large done by private entrepreneurs, and is most definitely NOT run by some secret government kabal, new world order, or illuminati.



Cloud seeding = legitimate business

Chemtrails = conspiracy BS

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Oh ok, i get what your point at now.



 

[saggs]

Yeah well, I know all that contrail stuff.. Seen contrails a million times, know what they are.. Can't hardly be a WW2 Aviation buff an NOT know what contrails are about, huh???  

This, that I recorded, was most definitely NOT contrails..

Blazin hot July day, CHRISTAL BLUE SKY, plane flys by, very high, (no contrail), then magically a small rainbow appears on the backtrack of the plane, then a cloud starts to spawn out of this magic rainbow, keeps expanding until there is a whole band of these magic clouds.. Seriously, no BS..

Now, that is what I saw happen, you ppl can yammer all ya want about it, doesn't change doodley squat!

And you would be surprised how many "Well educated" people will sign a petition to ban "Dihydrogen Monoxide"!
Holy Smokes    

Nothing about your description sounds all that unusual to me.  So there was a rainbow?  So what, remember that ice crystals make decent prisms if the angle of light is right.  It spread out?  So what, I've already explained how relative humidity affects the persistence of contrails.  It grew into other clouds?  Yup, that happens to, it's called reverse sublimation, when the air is very near 100% RHI the super cooled ice crystals of the contrail can actually cause the moisture in the air to condense/freeze creating more ice crystals.

Also could have been a combination of other factors to make the contrail look strange.  Perhaps he was dumping fuel at the same time.  Maybe an engine was running on the rich side.  Perhaps it was not only engine contrails but wingtip and TE vortices as well, with enough moisture in the air they can also create persistent contrails (you see it at airshows all the time in high G maneuvers, but it is not cold enough down low for them to stick around) which would also explain why it lingered and spread.

One last thing.  Where you by chance wearing polarized sunglasses when you saw this?  I ask because polarized lenses often make rainbows appear when you can't see them with the naked eye, also they make contrails look darker against the blue sky then they really are.  They sometimes also let you see exhaust and fuel trails behind aircraft that are also invisible to the naked eye.

[SEraider]

Hey Mark,

The only thing I can say is to ask your friend to politely back off if you don't agree with him.  I think friends will stick with each other even when they are going through an opininated transition.  I would just say to him that, "hey I love you but most of us don't agree with you and cool off a little."

Most of us go through wierd spots in our life.  I don't think backing away from a long time friend is the answer.  Just my 2 cents.

Unless there is a dire chemical change in his brain....

[SEraider]

I've seen documentaries on chem-trails.  The documentaries I've seen are not from sensationalistic freaks like Alex Jones but interviews with scientist who are proported experts in the field.

I have also seen interviews debunking chem-trails as water vapor not dissipating for hours because of temperature and pressure. 

Are chemtrails plausable?  Perhaps....

[caldera]

The contrails that make me wonder are the ones that fan out across a clear sky and seem to turn into clouds after a few hours.   

[Kung Fu]

Hehe, this thread reminds me of this youtube vid:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dvv-Yib1Xg

[saggs]

The contrails that make me wonder are the ones that fan out across a clear sky and seem to turn into clouds after a few hours.   

I think a lot of people here just post without actually bothering to read the thread.

I've already explained twice how that is a perfectly normal and natural phenomenon.



Like I said, I love a good conspiracy, and I'm actually really into the whole cryptozoology thing.  But nothing in the "chemtrail" stuff stands up to the slightest scrutiny.  I've seen the documentaries too, sure some "expert scientists" spout off some big words, but it's total junk science.  They completely butcher the scientific method, they work it backwards, (ie. start with a conclusion, and then twist the findings to fit is somehow.)  Also you have no idea how "creative" some producer got in editing in order to make someone seem to be saying the opposite of what they really mean. 

And then of course there is outright lying. 
One example.   You've heard of Bart Sibrel, he's behind several of the Moon landing hoax "documentaries".  In one he goes off about how Apollo astronauts could not have survived the Van Allen radiation belt, and supported his claim with quotes from Dr. Van Allen himself.   Very convincing right?  The facts about Van Allen belts coming from THE man who discovered them.    Well when somebody who actually KNEW Dr. Van Allen heard this he decided to talk to the man himself.  Turns out Sibrel just completely made up the quotes by taking snippets out of context and connecting them together, except without using the standard ... ... to denote they are snippets.    Van Allen never said anything of the sort, in fact he said quite the opposite.  Since that documentary I have seen those phony Van Allen quotes pop up with Moon landing hoax believers all over. 

Point is that just because a film calls itself a documentary, and seems to have genuine scientists in it doesn't mean anything in said film is genuine at all.  Once again those kinds of documentaries get the scientific method totally basackwards.  They START with a conclusion (as opposed to a hypothesis) then twist everything to fit the conclusion they've already made.