Clarifications about the Spitfire Mk IX and XVI

[MiloMorai]

LOL werra. drop tanks were used by the Lw in the SCW.

The job of fighters of the RAF was to shoot down the nazi bombers. The job of the nazi fighters was to protect the nazi bombers by shooting down the RAF fighters shooting down the nazi bombers.

The nazi fighters did a crappy job of protecting the nazi bombers from the RAF fighters!!!

The nazis failed to defeat the RAF > fact.

[Tank-Ace]

109s didn't do a terrible job. They lost more due to the impossibility of their goal than inferiority of their fighters or tactics.

[wpeters]

There are a couple things we need to rember.

1 Herman Goreing overstated the capabilities of the Luft.

2  The German air force not working together in protecting the bombers.

3 Luft. bombing London by accident. Which leads to number 4

4 The bombing of Berlin (one of Churchill  better decisions.) Great Moral Booster

5 Hitler becomes incensed with bombing London.( The Germans were actually winning the battle to this point) I admitt at a fairly slow rate but none the less winning.

6. The bombing of London stopped decimating the RAF's  logistical rebuilding of its airforce.

7 The BIGGEST point of all.  NEVER under estimate a person FIGHTING for his homeland.   Many sacrified there lives to fulfill the mission  Why you may ask

They were fighting for all of buddies, their families, their sweethearts and finally for the soil that was stained with blood of their friends.  

Numbers don't matter so much as the moral of the fighters.

That was the final deciding factor of battle

[Ack-Ack]

No no no... can you read? Or is it your writing? Clarify your stuff!
Germany lost 533 single engine aircraft!  
England lost 1034 single engine aircraft!  
THEY DIDNT HAVE THE FUEL TO PROTECT THE BOMBERS. The one invention that didn't exist yet... a drop tank.

Your reading comprehension isn't a strong suite is it?  You are quoting an inaccurate figure for total RAF losses during the BoB, not fighter losses.  RAF lost a total of 958 fighters (601 Hurricane losses, 357 Spitfire losses), not 1034 as you claim.  Total RAF losses were 1087 during the BoB, compared to 1562 total losses suffered by the Luftwaffe, which includes 533 Bf 109s lost during the battle.

Source: Statistics of the Battle of Britain

As for your claims about drops tanks not being invented at the time of the Battle of Britain, again (no surprise!) you're wrong.  The first use of drop tanks was during the Spanish Civil War and the Japanese were using drop tanks on their fighters (Ki-27, A5M2) in China.  Here is a picture of one of the A5M2s with a drop tank taken in 1938.


On December 8th, 1941, the Tainan Air Group took off from their base in Taiwan to attack US airfields in the Philippines and were able to make the round trip because the Zeros had drop tanks.
The Luftwaffe started to outfit the Ju-87R (long range version of the Stuka) with a 300 liter drop tank in early 1940 and the Bf 109E-7 started to use the same 300 liter drop tank in the summer of 1940.  What made the use of drop tanks scarce was the shortage of wartime metals, which led to the development and use of paper constructed drop tanks.

ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

109s didn't do a terrible job. They lost more due to the impossibility of their goal than inferiority of their fighters or tactics.

Luftwaffe tactics and strategy was the main factor that contributed to their loss, not the 'impossibility of their goal'.  Read "The Most Dangerous Enemy: a History of the Battle of Britain" if you want a comprehensive view of the BoB from both sides.

ack-ack

[Franz Von Werra]

I quote meself!:
"KARNAK... GO MAKE YOUR CHART AGAIN WITH PRODUCTION NUMBERS BEFORE WARS END AND TOTAL PRODUCED, AND CLAIMED KILLS!"
Then I will feel that I learned something from your post.

Ok, you guys have changed the topic...

on topic:
clearly defeated... spit16 source posted says 27 didn't see combat other than ground fire probably from the V2 bases. (Lyric's book source)
Spit blah blah version, was just like a spit9 with different engine. (Wikipedia)

off topic:
Luft kicked RAF out of France... LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
then didn't have a drop tank for Battle of Britian still... LUFT fighters > RAF Fighter,
also 'channel dash' LUFT escorts capital ships through England's channel, LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
Then battle of Dieppe, England failed to invade France without USA! LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
Finally, USA won the war. Nuff said! And RAF became a 3rd world nation, with a nuke! Some job the RAF did!  

Can be closed now! <takes a bow>   all

wpeters:
4 and 5,  this was englands way of switching the war to a war against civilians... and buying time and mercy from USA.
See this stuff about how England manipulated Germany's Luftwaffe navigation system... it was a couple of Non Directional Becons NDB's, towers sending a radio signal from France's coast, to help the Luftwaffe find their targets. England tricked the Luftwaffe into bombing London, then only a few hours later, RAF bombed Berlin... total setup.
From other thread:

Knickebein (crease leg) (reffered to as 'Headache' by England):
Germany's radio navigation during Battle for Britain.
From wikipedia.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knickebein_(navigation)
see "search for the beams section"
Sceptics started regarding the system as proof that the German pilots were not as good as their own, who they believed could do without such systems. It was Lindemann himself who proved this wrong, when his "photoflash" systems started returning photographs of the RAF bombing raids, showing that they were rarely, if ever, anywhere near their targets. <-- lol better than RAF bombers!

and see "counter measure section" (reffered to as 'Aspirin' by England)
The British broadcasters were later modified to broadcast their dots at the same time the German transmitters would, making it impossible to tell which signal was which. In this case the navigators would receive the equi-signal over a wide area, and navigation along the bombline became impossible, with the aircraft drifting into the "dash area" and no way to correct for it.
England was capable of manipulating the Luftwaffe Bombers navigation system, and either by accident or on purpose, caused London to get bombed! I'm sure England's radio broadcasts to the world did not mention 'aspirin'!!!
RAF tricked Luftwaffe bombers into bombing London, and the next night RAF bombed Berlin. The bombing of cities instead of military targets saved England during the Battle for Britain, and  HENCE BEGAN THE BATTLE AGAINST CITES and CIVILIANS BEGAN!!!
See 'phases of wikipedia's Battle of Britain section, August 23rd, 24th,25th, and how cities were previously off limits by the fuhrer himself.



German Bombsites and Accuracy:
Durinig the Battle for Britain, a new upgraded Ju-88 was downed and captured intact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Graveney_Marsh
On 27 September, British Supermarine Spitfire and Hawker Hurricane fighter planes from No. 66 and No. 92 Squadron RAF attacked what they recognized as a new variant of Junkers 88 over Faversham. An order had been issued to them to capture one such aircraft intact if possible.[1] One of the bomber's engines had already been damaged by anti-aircraft fire during a raid on London and the Spitfires were able to destroy its remaining engine, forcing the pilot to make a crash landing on Graveney Marsh.

Captain John Cantopher succeeded in disarming a demolition charge which enabled the bomber, which was equipped with a new and very accurate type of bombsight, to be captured for examination by British experts. The aircraft was taken to Farnborough Airfield where it was said to have "provided highly valuable information".[1] Cantopher was subsequently awarded the George Medal for his action.[3][4][5]

I do not know the name of this bombsite type, still, uhh, yeaah, Luftwaffe Bombers were capable of hitting a target!
This was 1940, so uhh, yeah too, I'm sure that by 1942, let alone 1944, the  He-177 would have an accurate site also.
Oh, and no bombers had the accuracy afforded to bomber planes in our game!

[Karnak]

If you want the kill total for Spitfires go get it yourself.

As I have shown the Spit XVI was rolling off the production lines along with the Spitfire LF.Mk IXe in early 1944.  Over 1000 Mk XVIs were built and about 3500 Spitfire LF.Mk IXs were built.  Spit XVIs were moved to the continent in July of 1944 along with LF.Mk IXs as the two were flown alongside each other in the same squadrons.

[MiloMorai]

This revisionist history being spewed is even worse than what ever Barbi spewed.

[Tank-Ace]

Luftwaffe tactics and strategy was the main factor that contributed to their loss, not the 'impossibility of their goal'.  Read "The Most Dangerous Enemy: a History of the Battle of Britain" if you want a comprehensive view of the BoB from both sides.

ack-ack

Strategy = bomb London till UK surrenders, more or less. Pretty damn impossible, if say.

I never said their strategy was good, just their flying and pilots, which really was the spit of the post  .

[MiloMorai]

Strategy = bomb London till UK surrenders, more or less. Pretty damn impossible, if say.

I never said their strategy was good, just their flying and pilots, which really was the spit of the post  .

Nope. It was to achieve aerial supremacy by defeating the RAF.

[Jabberwock]

No no no... can you read? Or is it your writing? Clarify your stuff!
Germany lost 533 single engine aircraft!  
England lost 1034 single engine aircraft!  
THEY DIDNT HAVE THE FUEL TO PROTECT THE BOMBERS. The one invention that didn't exist yet... a drop tank.

Drop tanks certainly existed, just not on the 109E-1/3/4. The Bf-110B was plumbed for drop tanks. In fact, drop tanks were use by the Luftwaffe on the He-51 during the Spanish Civil War.
 

[Ack-Ack]

Strategy = bomb London till UK surrenders, more or less. Pretty damn impossible, if say.

I never said their strategy was good, just their flying and pilots, which really was the spit of the post  .

Do yourself a favor and read about the Battle of Britain so you don't come off looking as foolish and ignorant as Schlowy.

ack-ack

[GScholz]

I quote meself!:
"KARNAK... GO MAKE YOUR CHART AGAIN WITH PRODUCTION NUMBERS BEFORE WARS END AND TOTAL PRODUCED, AND CLAIMED KILLS!"
Then I will feel that I learned something from your post.

Ok, you guys have changed the topic...

on topic:
clearly defeated... spit16 source posted says 27 didn't see combat other than ground fire probably from the V2 bases. (Lyric's book source)
Spit blah blah version, was just like a spit9 with different engine. (Wikipedia)

off topic:
Luft kicked RAF out of France... LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
then didn't have a drop tank for Battle of Britian still... LUFT fighters > RAF Fighter,
also 'channel dash' LUFT escorts capital ships through England's channel, LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
Then battle of Dieppe, England failed to invade France without USA! LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
Finally, USA won the war. Nuff said! And RAF became a 3rd world nation, with a nuke! Some job the RAF did!  

Can be closed now! <takes a bow>   all

wpeters:
4 and 5,  this was englands way of switching the war to a war against civilians... and buying time and mercy from USA.
See this stuff about how England manipulated Germany's Luftwaffe navigation system... it was a couple of Non Directional Becons NDB's, towers sending a radio signal from France's coast, to help the Luftwaffe find their targets. England tricked the Luftwaffe into bombing London, then only a few hours later, RAF bombed Berlin... total setup.
From other thread:

[Scherf]

Told ya.

[Guppy35]

I quote meself!:
"KARNAK... GO MAKE YOUR CHART AGAIN WITH PRODUCTION NUMBERS BEFORE WARS END AND TOTAL PRODUCED, AND CLAIMED KILLS!"
Then I will feel that I learned something from your post.

Ok, you guys have changed the topic...

on topic:
clearly defeated... spit16 source posted says 27 didn't see combat other than ground fire probably from the V2 bases. (Lyric's book source)
Spit blah blah version, was just like a spit9 with different engine. (Wikipedia)

off topic:
Luft kicked RAF out of France... LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
then didn't have a drop tank for Battle of Britian still... LUFT fighters > RAF Fighter,
also 'channel dash' LUFT escorts capital ships through England's channel, LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
Then battle of Dieppe, England failed to invade France without USA! LUFT fighters > RAF fighters.
Finally, USA won the war. Nuff said! And RAF became a 3rd world nation, with a nuke! Some job the RAF did!  

Can be closed now! <takes a bow>   all

wpeters:
4 and 5,  this was englands way of switching the war to a war against civilians... and buying time and mercy from USA.
See this stuff about how England manipulated Germany's Luftwaffe navigation system... it was a couple of Non Directional Becons NDB's, towers sending a radio signal from France's coast, to help the Luftwaffe find their targets. England tricked the Luftwaffe into bombing London, then only a few hours later, RAF bombed Berlin... total setup.
From other thread:

Pssst!  The war's been over for a long time.  Your side lost.  Spin it anyway you want, but you can't rewrite it to make a change the outcome.

You've gotta come out of your bunker.  I realize it's safer for you down there and you can sieg heil to your hearts content, but you gotta grow up some time.