Early Man

[GScholz]

    But indeed you do need Faith.   You have faith in those findings of scientists you have never met.

No. That's where the scientific method with its independent verification process comes in. I don't trust anything a scientist says until his/her findings have been independently verified by others. Repeatability of experiments is a key part of the scientific method. If an experiment can't be reproduced successfully it never happened. Scientists are people, and have the same fallibility as any other people.

[Brooke]

The machinery of how DNA->RNA->proteins is the hardware of life.  The specific DNA code is like software.  Change it, and you get different functions (Windows XP -> Windows 7, which can mostly run the same applications, like different breeds of dogs that can interbreed).  Change it enough, and you get different versions (Windows XP vs. Apple's OS X, which are mostly not compatible, like how dogs and cats can't interbreed).  It is all a change of code.

As for evolution, we know that the DNA code gets changed through reproduction (such as by crossover and mutation).  There are optimization algorithms (genetic optimization and genetic programming) that use analogs of crossover and mutation as software tools to optimize things, so it is no mystery how crossover and mutation can lead to optimization.

[Slate]

   For those who can positively say there is no Creator.......

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

[Brooke]

that doesn't quite so easily in nature, especially after 99% of the genetic pool is destroyed, and that is the problem with the human monkey theory. maybe once a live sasquatch is captured, many of the questions and missing pieces will be found, but right now it just doesn't work, even in a lab.

DNA is DNA.  How it works in the lab is how it works in nature.

[Bizman]

I have absolutely no difficulties to believe this world and all of its inhabitants has been created rather than being the result of a series of highly improbable incidents. Not that I couldn't believe each of those could happen, but that they would take place in the right order in the right place at the right time. The elements of a cell are very short-lived without the cell wall. My question is, although it might be possible to create all of the elements even at the same time, how to get the right amount of them inside some kind of a bubble where they could start co-operating and maybe later reproducing? A helping hand would've been very - helpful.

Genesis doesn't actually tell how or when God created the heaven and the earth. No magic, no giant hands baking lava, just "created". "How" and "when" are questions for true scientists who are willing to accept the truth whatever it may be and change their opinions accordingly without fear for losing their faces.

[Saxman]

Genesis doesn't actually tell how or when God created the heaven and the earth. No magic, no giant hands baking lava, just "created". "How" and "when" are questions for true scientists who are willing to accept the truth whatever it may be and change their opinions accordingly without fear for losing their faces.

QFT.

Science takes care of the How and When. If you want to involve faith, let that answer the "Why?"

[GScholz]

"Life" as we know it are molecular machines. Nothing "more", however it still is a LOT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFCvkkDSfIU

[GScholz]

   For those who can positively say there is no Creator.......

No one can positively prove a negative, nor do they have to.

[mechanic]

That is an absurd statement.  You’re trying to take an abstract concept of slavery and equating it to modern life, we are all ‘slaves to the system’ sort of mentality.

There are countless cases of real slavery.  Child slavery, prostitution, human trafficking, gulags in North Korea.  That is real slavery, where you are bound to servitude as property, without free choice or will, completely subjugated under the power of others.

These are the people suffer the depravity of slavery, and attempting to draw some loose moral equivalence only marginalizes the extent of their suffering.

I disagree with that. Yes I agree that there are many forms of slavery alive today. The existence of forced and tragic, more obvious slavery in today's world does not prohibit other more carefully concealed forms of slavery from existing alongside. I am not equating one to the other, simply stating that a majority of humans fall into some form of unavoidable servitude in one form or another. The existence of a more basic and horrific form of slavery today only adds to the percentage of humans who are in bondage, it does not negate the easier forms of slavery. If you'll notice I did say that some of today's modern forms of slavery have been tailored to the point of even being quite enjoyable in most cases. Those who recognise their hands being burned do not marginalize those who get their whole body torched.

[GScholz]

Voluntary slavery is an oxymoron.

[Brooke]

Slaves have no freedom and cannot choose what they do, where they go, or where they live.

Taking the UK as an example, almost no one is a slave.  (I would say "no one", but in the whole nation, there is probably someone being illegally kept somewhere, just like in the US, where we find from time to time some monster who has locked an unfortunate into the basement for years.)

Voluntary anything (employment included) and slavery are two completely different things.

Why so sour on today's world?

It's not perfect, but it is a lot better than how the typical person lived in the past (say, 1800's or earlier -- or today in some third-world countries).  Even poor people in western countries have what those past people would classify as great luxuries.  In the US, for example, the typical poor person has:  enough food to eat so that obesity is the major health problem; a television; a car; an abode; heating and air conditioning; clothes; a microwave; a conventional oven; an indoor bathroom; spices; running water; electricity; lighting; carpeting; furniture; books; a cell phone; a refrigerator; a freezer; and a console game.  We need to keep working to make things better, of course, to create a vibrant, growing economy with enough opportunity for all who have a desire to go for it; but the life of humans has been on a major upswing in modern times.

[Ardy123]

Maybe this will help temper some peoples ignorance..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GThh6bU0-OU


and yes, we do have slaves... Sadly many people are forced to come to the US to pay off 'debts' where they are then turned into slaves (often sex slaves). It is the basis/biz model for much of the prostitution industry.

[NatCigg]

[BreakingBad]

I am....simply stating that a majority of humans fall into some form of unavoidable servitude in one form or another.

Would you consider me a form of slave?  I'm considered quite wealthy even by US standards, but we have to work to pay for the mortgages, cars, food, etc..  I can choose who I work for, but I still have to work, is that unavoidable servitude.

How about the blue collar factory worker or farmer, he has to earn money to buy the necessities for life, is he a slave?

I suspect you are confusing that most people are compelled to do things in order that they may live and function in society, with being the 'property' of others. 

I think when you separate those you find the 'majority' of people don't fall into the slave category.

[Bear76]

Nothing like debating creation/evolution/religion in a cartoon game forum  


Waiting for Bustr to publish his thesis here.