Author Topic: 30mm is buggy  (Read 14328 times)

Offline Interceptor

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2015, 06:48:04 PM »
i got 35 more films for you, i guess you think a lancaster engine needs 10+ 30mm hits to get an oil leak and a b17 wing shouldnt come off under 25x 30mm hits. :rofl
The Bug is almost in all films posted in this thread... Keep saying "no there is not" after every film posted, i guess u got plenty of time to waste, good for you. :cheers:

Historically, 3-6(big max)mk108 hits (sprayed on plane whole structure, considering the destruction power of the ammo) were needed to get a b-17 down btw, not 30-60. :aok

Proof that your good at hitting the main body of the plane. When you finally hit the wing with a 30 it came off.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 06:51:54 PM by Interceptor »

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2015, 09:31:47 PM »
Just telling you what I saw, a lot of hits along the body blowing big old holes in the side of the plane damaging nothing (seeing as this isn't a real plane, but a game and the program on recognizes hit damage where it is programed to do so). When you finally did hit the wing it came off just like it should have. Learn to aim and hit the important parts and you'll be ok.

Offline Wiley

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #137 on: July 17, 2015, 01:41:25 AM »
i got 35 more films for you, i guess you think a lancaster engine needs 10+ 30mm hits to get an oil leak and a b17 wing shouldnt come off under 25x 30mm hits. :rofl
The Bug is almost in all films posted in this thread... Keep saying "no there is not" after every film posted, i guess u got plenty of time to waste, good for you. :cheers:

Historically, 3-6(big max)mk108 hits (sprayed on plane whole structure, considering the destruction power of the ammo) were needed to get a b-17 down btw, not 30-60. :aok


No need for hyperbole, let's look at exactly what you hit there.

First pass: 1 30mm on the bomb bay door.  1 30mm on the engine cowling. 1 30mm on the fuselage near the tail on the first pass.  All damage on the left side.  High speed.

Second pass:  Solid rake down the right side of the fuselage.  3(?) 30mms.  Fuel leak on right wing.  Medium speed.

Third pass:  1 hit on the right bomb bay door, 1 hit just in front of the tail.  Fuselage splits.  Multiple solid hits on the right wing, right wing destroyed.  Relatively slow.

Now, as you may or may not be aware, different parts on the airplane have their own HP.  They all count their damage individually.  Explosions are a bit nebulous, but whatever damage is done to a part is done to that part and is unaffected by damage to the surrounding area.  The parts are all either working, or not working when they receive enough damage, there's no in between.

So looking at that video, what you basically had was singleton hits to various parts, and the damage that did the plane in was to the rear fuselage, with 4 hits to that part, possibly 5.  It's unclear what bomb bay doors count as, but I'd expect them to be part of the front fuselage where the wings attach.

Now, we can grumble about the all or nothing DM if we like, but 5 hits to the large metal tube part of the plane did bring it down, while a bunch of singletons to the wings and engine cowlings didn't.  Also, the majority of your hits were at a slower closing speed, which would result in less damage.

What I get the sense is, you guys basically feel anything smaller than a bomber fuselage that gets hit by a single tater under all conditions should be gone, period.  Not entirely sure I agree with it from either a gameplay perspective or historical one.

Within the constraints of how the DM works now though, I just don't see anything there that's out of line with the way things currently work.  How they should be?  Completely different argument, but my point is it doesn't look like a bug.

Wiley.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #138 on: July 22, 2015, 12:38:09 PM »
A 30mm penetrated a ball turret, ripped the flight jacket off of the gunner, exited the ball turret, entered the fuselage and detonated killing a waist gunner.

The 30mm had a delayed impact fuse, something like 10cm but at what range I don't know. I'm noticing on a lot of these screen shots that the trajectory of the 30mm is transecting thin parts of the planes at high angles at close range. Is this a case of players underestimating the comprehensiveness of Pyro's modeling of munitions as we have done in the past?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 12:58:06 PM by FLOOB »
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Offline bustr

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #139 on: July 22, 2015, 03:43:27 PM »
Most MK108 aircraft ammunition and some 20mm, had a delayed detonation secondary igniter. MK108 ammunition had a C70 secondary igniter mounted just under the primary fuse. The delay was caused by the primary ignition channeling ignition flame through channels before reaching the C70 igniter. The hope was that the round would pass through the aluminum skin before detonation inside. Many bomber crewmen died this way from 20mm and 30mm ammunition.

Most MK108 types had a 1100m spin controlled self detonation fuse as the primary igniter. Remember, the round still needs kinetic energy to penetrate the aluminum skin. By 400m the round has dropped from 500m\sec to 400m\sec with the velocity rapidly decreasing past 400m. So consider the round's impact\penetration depending on the angle or slope of the surface. 600m-1000m may not penetrate but, still detonate without full contact to the aircraft skin. A delay detonator means if the round does not penetrate but, the primary fuse triggers, the round will bounce off or look like it contact detonated.

This would be part of the reason for a 1100m spin activated self destruct incorporated into the primary fuse. I do not know if these factors are modeled.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #140 on: July 22, 2015, 03:49:59 PM »
The self destruct fuses were hardly ever used, even over germany. The basic impact fuze had a delay.
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Offline bustr

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #141 on: July 22, 2015, 06:28:44 PM »
No primary fuse used in MK103 rounds had a delay. They were all contact striker fuses with one type striking the secondary detonator after about 1100m to self destruct after the spin slows down. And the other type a simple contact striker fuse. Both primary fuse relied on spin to unlock and arm them while one relied on the slower spin after 1000m or 7.5sec for the striker to set off the secondary detonator.

It could be an intardnet urban legend, the self destruct primary were used by a 190 unit sometimes to sit back out of rear gunnery range and lob the round for the detonation effect of the self destruct. Unless all the ones produced were packed away in vault for late 20th century collectors to cut apart for internet pictures, they were used. Why produce any to begin with, even if the demands of the late 44 war eventually dictated the simpler contact striker with no self destruct mechanism for aircraft munitions.     
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline hitech

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #142 on: August 03, 2015, 12:42:44 PM »
Another film with the Mk108 bug (another proof...) :rock

Fun begins at 5:41 !  :aok

Here are the tools we use to track down bugs on claims like yours.
Left is time stamp
next is player who was shot the
[0]
is the plane index 0 for lead, 1 for first drone ...

Lethality is the lethality of the round if you it something at the end of the gun.
The actually lethality applied will diminish with distance and speeds.

Hardness has to do with armor penetration.
BaseStrength is the strength of the undamaged component you hit. Followed by it's numbers and name.
WN is simply the short name of the weapon,
And finally the point of impact, we use this to track down miss labeled components.

The host totals up damage done to each component. Once the damage done is greater then BaseStrength, the component is destroyed and you see the part come off.


341.51 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   4.523   -4.905   -4.076
  341.81 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -25.676    0.391   -3.744
  341.91 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=120.0 NextComp=213, HitComp=158 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_HORIZ_STAB) WN=CAN Pnt=  -6.843   -0.660  -34.132
  342.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -2.657   -0.352   15.704
  342.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=75.0 NextComp=134, HitComp=136 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_OUTER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -31.816    1.494   -0.569
  342.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -25.682   -0.134   -2.685
  342.41 cdw4563[1]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=30.0 NextComp=136, HitComp=178 (bgdmgCI_BOTTOM_LEFT_AILERON) WN=CAN Pnt= -46.979    3.823   -0.920
  363.11 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   4.347   -4.688    7.261
  363.11 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   4.167   -4.057   -7.221
  363.11 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=20.0 NextComp=111, HitComp=103 (bgdmgCI_FUEL_2) WN=CAN Pnt=   5.625   -1.463   -2.967
  363.11 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   2.566    1.632  -11.553
  363.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   2.042    2.467  -28.166
  363.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   2.666    0.481  -17.734
  363.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   2.369    0.270  -26.851
  363.31 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   0.000    2.350  -40.709
  363.31 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -1.218   -3.197  -26.993
  426.91 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   0.976   -3.065  -29.080
  427.21 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=191 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_FLAP_DESTROYED_ 1) WN=CAN Pnt=  24.086    0.253   -5.986
  427.31 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=140.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=135 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_INNER_WING_BOTT OM) WN=CAN Pnt=  14.182   -0.565    3.058
  427.41 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=191 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_FLAP_DESTROYED_ 1) WN=CAN Pnt=   5.131   -0.930   -9.657
  428.31 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=15.0 NextComp=64, HitComp=70 (bgdmgCI_ENG_OIL_1) WN=CAN Pnt= -26.415   -2.459    8.032
  428.31 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=20.0 NextComp=110, HitComp=102 (bgdmgCI_FUEL_1) WN=CAN Pnt= -10.094   -3.020   -2.463
  428.41 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -30.944    1.528    1.752
  428.41 cdw4563[0]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=20.0 NextComp=110, HitComp=104 (bgdmgCI_FUEL_3) WN=CAN Pnt= -24.173   -0.500   -1.653
  432.61 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=120.0 NextComp=213, HitComp=159 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_HORIZ_STAB) WN=CAN Pnt=   5.491   -0.803  -37.549
  432.71 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=191 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_FLAP_DESTROYED_ 1) WN=CAN Pnt=   3.691   -1.057   -8.688
  432.71 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -1.812   -1.617  -37.304
  432.81 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -2.024   -1.395  -35.077
  432.91 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=40.0 NextComp=158, HitComp=166 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_ELEV) WN=CAN Pnt= -10.183   -0.576  -38.739
  434.01 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=191 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_FLAP_DESTROYED_ 1) WN=CAN Pnt=   9.449   -0.828   -9.308
  434.11 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   2.851   -2.756   10.362
  434.21 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 75.0 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=10.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=2 (bgdmgCI_HARD_PNT_2) WN=CAN Pnt=  -1.186    5.041  -21.224
  434.61 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=250.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   1.369   -1.641  -40.891
  434.61 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -1.027   -3.496   17.220
  434.71 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=134, HitComp=190 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_FLAP_DESTROYED_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -5.817    0.195   -6.001
  435.21 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -29.856    2.999    0.437
  435.31 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=134, HitComp=190 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_FLAP_DESTROYED_1) WN=CAN Pnt= -24.414    0.975   -6.994
  435.41 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -25.349    1.593   -5.157
  435.51 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -18.312   -0.642   -4.090
  435.61 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=350.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=221 (bgdmgCI_CENTER_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -5.786   -1.384   -4.669
  438.01 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=140.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=135 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_INNER_WING_BOTT OM) WN=CAN Pnt=  22.443   -0.002   -5.859
  440.01 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=191 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_FLAP_DESTROYED_ 1) WN=CAN Pnt=  14.806    1.096   -1.439
  441.21 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=10.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=2 (bgdmgCI_HARD_PNT_2) WN=CAN Pnt=  -2.400    1.129  -24.755
  441.81 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=120.0 NextComp=213, HitComp=159 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_HORIZ_STAB) WN=CAN Pnt=  16.096    2.891  -34.291
  443.21 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=50.0 NextComp=134, HitComp=190 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_FLAP_DESTROYED_1) WN=CAN Pnt= -24.602    0.885   -7.441
  443.21 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -13.852   -0.068   -6.606
  443.21 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=20.0 NextComp=110, HitComp=104 (bgdmgCI_FUEL_3) WN=CAN Pnt= -24.428   -0.605   -2.301
  443.51 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=20.0 NextComp=110, HitComp=104 (bgdmgCI_FUEL_3) WN=CAN Pnt= -20.218    1.772   -0.827
  443.61 cdw4563[2]: Lethality 22.7 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=200.0 NextComp=-1, HitComp=134 (bgdmgCI_LEFT_INNER_WING_BOTTO M) WN=CAN Pnt= -13.534   -1.591    5.056



Offline Latrobe

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #143 on: August 03, 2015, 01:34:17 PM »
I'd like to see the results from my 2 tater hits on the F4U's wing if that's not too much trouble. I still find it hard to believe that an F4U (or any fighter) can absorb the damage from 2 30mm hits. Bombers... maybe with all the components they have. A fighter? I just don't see it happening.

Offline hitech

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #144 on: August 03, 2015, 03:30:08 PM »
I'd like to see the results from my 2 tater hits on the F4U's wing if that's not too much trouble. I still find it hard to believe that an F4U (or any fighter) can absorb the damage from 2 30mm hits. Bombers... maybe with all the components they have. A fighter? I just don't see it happening.

Here is your output, but you did help uncover a bug.

I thought I had fixed this long ago, I know it showed up in a different form previously in the film viewer.
But the film view was showing double hits before. The 2 hits just at the end of your film, were not hits in the original fight. But were phantom effects of the film view.

Basically it was detecting a NEW collision in the film view, but there were not hits on the original flight.

Do you remember specifically seeing hits in the real pass when you were playing?

HiTech


  350.42 wawa[0]: Lethality 4.9 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=25.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=137 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_OUTER_WING_BOTT OM) WN=MG Pnt=  17.674   -0.647    2.979
  377.92 53Mech[0]: Lethality 4.9 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=MG Pnt=  -3.867    0.810  -21.315
  378.12 53Mech[0]: Lethality 52.1 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -5.593    0.862  -20.652
  378.22 53Mech[0]: Lethality 4.9 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=MG Pnt=  -1.269   -1.084  -13.199
  378.32 53Mech[0]: Lethality 52.1 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   4.078    0.900  -22.900



Offline bustr

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #145 on: August 03, 2015, 04:11:40 PM »

Basically it was detecting a NEW collision in the film view, but there were not hits on the original flight.

HiTech


How do you log the real data for review versus relying on the copy of the sortie's time frame that the film viewer is interpreting in the play back?
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Latrobe

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #146 on: August 03, 2015, 04:23:14 PM »
Here is your output, but you did help uncover a bug.

I thought I had fixed this long ago, I know it showed up in a different form previously in the film viewer.
But the film view was showing double hits before. The 2 hits just at the end of your film, were not hits in the original fight. But were phantom effects of the film view.

Basically it was detecting a NEW collision in the film view, but there were not hits on the original flight.

Do you remember specifically seeing hits in the real pass when you were playing?

HiTech


  350.42 wawa[0]: Lethality 4.9 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=25.0 NextComp=135, HitComp=137 (bgdmgCI_RIGHT_OUTER_WING_BOTT OM) WN=MG Pnt=  17.674   -0.647    2.979
  377.92 53Mech[0]: Lethality 4.9 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=MG Pnt=  -3.867    0.810  -21.315
  378.12 53Mech[0]: Lethality 52.1 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=  -5.593    0.862  -20.652
  378.22 53Mech[0]: Lethality 4.9 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=MG Pnt=  -1.269   -1.084  -13.199
  378.32 53Mech[0]: Lethality 52.1 Hardness=0.0 BaseStregth=35.0 NextComp=221, HitComp=213 (bgdmgCI_REAR_FUSE_1) WN=CAN Pnt=   4.078    0.900  -22.900





Thanks for the reply! I honestly don't remember if I saw a 30mm hit during the fight. I just know that it felt odd that he flew right through my bullet stream and didn't die from a 30mm hit. When I looked at the film in the film viewer I saw 30mm hits on both passes which made me believe I did score hits and they did no damage.

Offline Lucifer

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #147 on: August 21, 2015, 07:35:52 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 06:52:17 AM by Skuzzy »

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #148 on: August 21, 2015, 07:43:51 PM »
you hit the fuselage. they can take a ton of damage there

Offline Lucifer

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Re: 30mm is buggy
« Reply #149 on: August 22, 2015, 05:51:50 AM »
I just sent 26 x 30mm on Havermyr's Lancaster "fuselage"(2min ago) : not even a smoke trail, at less than 20m. Plz, we r beyond this, fugitive.

you hit the fuselage. they can take a ton of damage there

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