Dresden POW survivor video interview

[Toad]

Eagl, save yourself the effort. The last time anyone tried to explain total war and the results thereof the thread simply got locked and, as you can plainly see, your opponent failed to learn anything.

If it was his family/nation going into the ovens perhaps he'd change his mind.

You never know though; he might just be the kind to kneel for the sword to the neck.

[eagl]

Golly Gee..Wiz Bang...they spent money they COULD NOT afford, diverting same from feeding their populace, their solders, their health care for both. From their armaments to even defend themselves...but..according to your 'blessed' perception does NOT prove their intent????
I yield to your superior intellect...all hail!!!
                                                              JGroth

They intended to kill them all.  There isn't a military objective in that.  It was genocide, and you don't take military objectives by killing a subpopulation of your own citizens.  Sorry jgroth you're supporting hitler's train of thought here by making the holocaust a legitmate military action.  It wasn't, no way no how.  I say it again.  There is no way the holocaust was a military action.  It was something else entirely that had to be stopped as quickly as possible.  Trying to make it into a military action gives it a moral basis that simply doesn't exist.

[eagl]

Eagl, save yourself the effort. The last time anyone tried to explain total war and the results thereof the thread simply got locked and, as you can plainly see, your opponent failed to learn anything.

If it was his family/nation going into the ovens perhaps he'd change his mind.

You never know though; he might just be the kind to kneel for the sword to the neck.

True that Toad.  People take all sorts of strange positions without thinking it through.  A friend of mine refused to kill the rabbit in survival training, stating that he would die before killing the rabbit.  Same guy enjoyed a burger with me the next week.  Jumping into the middle of a discussion and trying to justify the holocaust as some sort of military action... That's a first for me.  I've never seen anyone try to turn the holocaust into some sort of military action except some neo-Nazi fringe nutters.  That's lunacy.

[Groth]

 YOUR error is the supposition that one countries view of 'military necessity' would correlate with yours...common.
                                                         JGroth

[Groth]

 Your ball.
           JGoth

[eagl]

Survival of my family is all I need Groth.  My families won't go into the ovens while I'm alive, and I'm wearing the uniform and flying or supporting combat ops daily with numerous allied nations all going the same direction and using very similar ROE, so I'm not just arguing hypotheticals.  I do this every day at work and have been doing so my entire adult life, considering that desert storm kicked off before I turned 21 and I was in uniform when that happened. 

And when the lotus eaters come begging for my help I'll be there even though they damn me now.  It's been that way for a long time, I suppose.  For now, I don't want to see anyone else put in the ovens, or more recently, burning in a cage for a propaganda video on liveleak.  Armchair quarterback and the rabbits will hate me now, praise me if I or others like me save them and their families, then turn around and damn us the next day.  It's always like that for people like me and, apparently, people like you.

[Groth]

 And I fully appreciate your attempt to identify me as someone who 'defends' holocaust...
 I hope you sleep well...I do you sod.
                                            JGroth
 PS please..bring it.

[Toad]

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

Kipling. Tommy

[eagl]

And I fully appreciate your attempt to identify me as someone who 'defends' holocaust...
 I hope you sleep well...I do you sod.
                                            JGroth
 PS please..bring it.

As a matter of fact I routinely have nightmares about the operations I've participated in.  An awful lot people doing my job are pretty messed up after 10 or so years of this.  Part of the business.  You're welcome.

As for the holocaust, you're the one who jumped into the middle of an argument and started spouting nonsense about how the continuation of the atrocities until the last day proved that the Nazis felt it was a military necessity.  That's pretty sick.

[eagl]

Thank you Toad.  Kipling had it right back then and its true now more than ever.

Its tommy this and tommy that, and throw him out, the brute!

[Groth]

Well put, Toad...
             but question was whether genocide was major thrust of the Nazis war plan...
                   eagle  was gonna dispute this with...facts?
                                                                              JGroth

[Groth]

 Tiresome..getting late...put your 'proof' out there..
          I do not have patience for childish retorts...
                                             JGroth

[Groth]

FOCUS...if you can.
                  JGroth

[eagl]

Groth, you know darn well Hitler wanted to take over the world.  The holocaust was a nothing but a social adjustment to him, utter madness.  His military objectives involved taking territory.  Once he took it, his dream of a society free of jews and others not good enough to live was nothing but swatting bugs to him.  Complete lunacy, nothing to do with his military objectives of taking over the world.  On the last day of the war there was no possible military objective to continuing the murder, yet they continued. 

Its beyond me how you can think that the murders were part of a military objective.  Hitler viewed the genocide as nothing worse than picking lint off his coat, cleaning house as it were.  That's one reason why he had to be stopped in a total war effort, not just contained.  Stalin showed us very well what containment of a murderer leads to.  And that's another decision (containment vs. war vs. the soviet union in spite of the millions of murders that were committed there) that I won't second guess because it wasn't my call.  I do hope that we learned something about it.  Maybe some people have learned something, evidenced by our combat actions with the stated intent to destroy ISIS instead of merely containing it.  You going to second guess that one too?  You can enlist, get elected, or at least vote if you want to be part of the decision instead of criticizing from the sidelines.

[Groth]

 What trip
 Hitler did or did not wanna do this or do that...
 Pull your stupie head outta your arse...
 HE HATED JEWS ..dude..wtf
 HE decided what was military obfulkinkine objective...NOT you you arse...
 Wake the flip UP you obtuse idiot.
 He left clues all over.....
                     JGroth
             PS lil child..this is getting tiresome....get a grip or log the F off