Sick and tired

[PJ_Godzilla]

It's typically assumed when speaking of a 1 on 1 engagement (especially when in the context of the DA) that the altitudes are the same at the merge, with both aircraft at cruise (i.e. no climbing above the merge alt and then diving to meet the merge alt).

If you need an alt advantage (and therefore an energy advantage) to beat someone in a "lesser plane," all you're doing is solidifying the fact that it can't win from a co-E engagement and is, in fact, inferior 1v1.

That wasn't the point. The point was that a pilot can hang a lot of scalps from a/c that are objectively superior by having an initial advantage, a fact of which you are keenly aware, judging from your MA tactics.

What i'm postulating is Grizz's methodology for excelling in the "inferior" a/c. The hypothesis being, w/r "superior" a/c, he nullified their performance advantage quickly with an engagement from an advantageous energy state and a well-aimed tater tot. IE, he minimized the "engagement" portion of the encounter.

[Skyyr]

That wasn't the point. The point was that a pilot can hang a lot of scalps from a/c that are objectively superior by having an initial advantage, a fact of which you are keenly aware, judging from your MA tactics.

What i'm postulating is Grizz's methodology for excelling in the "inferior" a/c. The hypothesis being, w/r "superior" a/c, he nullified their performance advantage quickly with an engagement from an advantageous energy state and a well-aimed tater tot. IE, he minimized the "engagement" portion of the encounter.

Gotcha - sorry, misunderstood.

[Skyyr]

Trobe,

He never said it.  Check my original post to Godzilla. Skyyr simply wanted to chime in on plane flight envelopes and spout his knowledge.  I simply reminded him that Grizz was an exception to his flight envelope claims.  he didn't like it so he got all toontough. Lol.

"X player is an exception to the flight envelope" - way to contradict 100+ years of aviation science, 5'oclock.

[Changeup]

"X player is an exception to the flight envelope" - way to contradict 100+ years of aviation science, 5'oclock.

Lol.  These are real planes with real physics and real engines.  They perform exactly and people can't possibly find a way to fly them past their toon envelope.  You clearly ridicule what you don't understand lmao!  Wtg semipro

[Dragon Tamer]

player is an exception to the flight envelope

Why thank you, about time someone recognized my superiority.

[Latrobe]

I like Maple Syrup

I too like Maple Syrup. it goes good with pancakes.

[Zoney]

Honestly I don't think Grizz still needs to be in his prime to beat anyone that still plays.

Well, sorta.  I don't think he could jump in and kill everybody his first flight.  He would need to tune up a bit.  You have to get your timing back, your gunnery back, your "E" judgement back.  If I'm guessing, and I am, 10 hours of flying and he is at 90%, 100 hours and he's right at the top of his game again.

[Someguy63]

Well, sorta.  I don't think he could jump in and kill anybody his first flight.  He would need to tune up a bit.  You have to get your timing back, your gunnery back, your "E" judgement back.  If I'm guessing, and I am, 10 hours of flying and he is at 90%, 100 hours and he's right at the top of his game again.

True that.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Lol.  These are real planes with real physics and real engines.  They perform exactly and people can't possibly find a way to fly them past their toon envelope.  You clearly ridicule what you don't understand lmao!  Wtg semipro

Now this is an interesting assertion -but it's not somewhere I'm going. I want realism and if I die, I die. That said, I believe ther are interesting things that can be done, no reality violation required. I'm thinking back on Agent360's stall fighting vids, some of which may be worth another perusal. We don't have perf charts on being able to point a nose at very low speeds.


And, I should add, this thread has grown some legs, but it was a liittle whiny and pot-calling-kettle in the beginning.

[JOACH1M]

I still get a chub from watching me and Grizz's 1v1 videos.

[Changeup]

Now this is an interesting assertion -but it's not somewhere I'm going. I want realism and if I die, I die. That said, I believe ther are interesting things that can be done, no reality violation required. I'm thinking back on Agent360's stall fighting vids, some of which may be worth another perusal. We don't have perf charts on being able to point a nose at very low speeds.


And, I should add, this thread has grown some legs, but it was a liittle whiny and pot-calling-kettle in the beginning.

Everyone has seen an opposing aircraft do the spinny-deathstar-deathflower move at 400 out.  It's a purposeful move used to force an overshoot.  It's one example of how toon planes and RL planes don't have comparable envelopes.   In RL wings, tires, flight surfaces and pilot skin would peel off  right before the engine ripped off the mounts.  That is just one clear example of operating a toon plane outside its comparable RL envelope.  There are many others.  It's part of the game. 

But I would say that Grizz, kappa, Batfink and JB fly crappy EW airframes to victory against better airframes than anyone I've ever seen.  And they don't do it in the vertical every time.

Edit:  I never got to see Levi or Bighorn in EW rides but I assume it was spectacular as well.  I don't mention Badboy because to my knowledge he was pretty much a Spit Luftberry guy.  I never fought him.  Unless he'd like to fess up to his weekend hunter/griefer shady-shader lifestyle. Lmao

[PJ_Godzilla]

Badboy - aka Leon - I remember him well. He ran some E-M diagrams on request for me. We traded some notes after I mentioned that one of my former academic advisors was N.X. Vinh.

In any case, if Badboy was turning lots of circles, I suspect he was doing so because he had a turn rate advantage over his opponent at that alt and speed.

I thought he was an F6 fanatic.

[Mar]

He did it even in same plane and load duels. Merged with classic immelmann then locked himself into the perfect circle where the other guy had the choice of doing the exact same until they both ran out of fuel or lose.

[Tumor]

Ha!  The cry of witchcraft

Call it what you will.  "The Best" pile-its in this cartoon typically know their ride, ACM, e-management, net-lag and a healthy dose of "how the f#$% did he do that" gamery.  It just is. 

[DmonSlyr]

It really comes down to the situation and who you are fighting against in the MA vs the type of planes you are both in. Spit16s are incredibly versatile, even finding one lower than you can be a really tough fight given who the pilot is. The spit16 is a beast mode plane because it is capable of so performing maneuvers very quickly. You simply wont beat it in a g14 if they are very inclined with how to perform maneuvers in AH. It's not like being higher than a p47 where it's not that great of a defensive plane. The G14 is a great defensive plane but it still cannot match a spi16 or an la7 very well if they have more speed over you. The key to being a good 109 pilot is to learn defensive maneuvers, set up counter shots, and make quick snap shots as they cross infront of you. I always love fighting spits in my 109s but you have to out fly them with experience knowing what the spit16 is probably going to do, and then counter that with a complex maneuver. If they foil the plan and you get slow in the rolling scissors, the spit16 would typically win. In a 1v1 fight in the DA the spit16 would totally dominate the g14 and A5. The 190A5 is better at BnZ, so if the 190 loses that advantage against a spit16 its pretty much GG.

Grizz was a very good pilot. It wasn't just his aim that was exceptional. He had great understanding of what to do next and timing his maneuvers. One thing that makes some pilots better than others is the timing and control they have over the plane during the maneuver. Timing and control make a huge difference to how the fight plays out. (This includes flaps and throttle timing)

fighting against Bighorn was very interesting because he had perfected the merge to where he could get inside and still climb up to you with much E. He also had very good timing and control.

BadBoy also has great control and E control.

One thing I notice about fighting Latrobe and Joach1m is that they have extremely good roll overs. Grizz was also pretty good at this too. The roll overs in the rolling scissors really allow them to get inside you. Krupnski is also very tough. This is a huge part to being good in 1v1 fights that many people are not excellent at. You begin with the Merge, then the transition to what you want to do after the merge, and then you begin a series of rolling scissors that take a lot of concentration. These rolling scissors are crucial to winning fights. Learning each position of the duel will help you become a better pilot all around in the MA and the DA.