Author Topic: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...  (Read 7432 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2016, 01:24:25 PM »
The Admiral Kuznetsov is actually a floating POS.  There is a reason why a tug has to sortie out with the Admiral Kuznetsov when it goes on its cruises as the ship is prone to breaking down and needing to be towed back to port.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2016, 01:29:15 PM »
Pretty much yes. It has pretty close to zero capability of any longer deployment involving combat. Sailing to the Mediterranean, circle around outside their port and launching a few sorties is what it can do. A pure propaganda stunt..
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Offline artik

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2016, 02:37:28 PM »
Yeah, they really need to put a reactor in it. It's not like they don't have plenty of naval reactors available.

Not really. Virtually all non US carriers are conventional (with only exception of Charles de Gaulle) It has serious cost and does not really solve the task force dependency on fossil fuel. You still need to put stuff into jets. IIRC Nimitz class carrier during intensive operations require refueling every 2 days... So do you really need reactor in it?


Oh, it's a great start, and honestly for their needs it's more than sufficient, (and this is probably some REALLY heavy bias here) but she's no Nimitz :)

Also Foch, HMS Invincible and many others. Not being Nimitz didn't stop HMS Invincible to go to another end of the world and give a successful fight. And Invincible was much less capable (for its time) in comparison to Kuznetsov today. MiG-29K and Su-33 aren't Harriers...   

I don't understand why they're still using skijumps rather than catapults...


Why virtually no WW2 carriers used catapults in day to day operations up to end of the war? Because it wasn't needed - it was helpful but not critical.
It is just makes it comeback with a ski-jump twist. See this: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357838.0.html
Today 3 navies operate STOBAR carriers: Russia, China and India, it is also building a totally new carrier in same STOBAR configuration. The naval HAL Tejas is designed for ski-jump operation.

The major advantages of STOBAR:

1. Much simple aircraft design because it does not need to sustain 4G accelerations using its nose gear while weighting 68,000lb - i.e. superbug tanker. Virtually any aircraft can takeoff from ski-jump - USAF tested F-18A/B, F-15, F-16 and even E-2C - successfully. So it is much easier to modify aircraft for STOBAR operation rather than CATOBAR - Su-33, MiG-29 and Su-25 started as land aircraft. Same probably true for HAL Tejas.

2. It simplifies aircraft carrier design as and maintenance as catapult is heavy machinery...

Disadvantages are

1. Higher wind over deck requirements for takeoff for fully loaded planes: http://cppcms.com/files/skijump/
2. Less deck space to park your planes.
3. Requirement to operate aircraft with either high T/W ratio or with low stall speed.
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Offline artik

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2016, 04:23:51 AM »
Now the latest video of Mig and su training

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Ytm4R0jrI

Note there are at least 4 migs. And note some of them parked with wing tanks... According to the various reports there were some upgrades of various systems on the carrier to support latest mig 29s Ins.

It seems to me that it is one of the most important upgrades that this carrier had totally new and latest migs
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2016, 06:54:56 AM »
I understand the cv is not carrying a full compliment of aircraft. This outing is to test the new bilge pumps to see if they can keep up with the leaks. The tug is on hand to videotape the waterline to see how the draft changes. Thus knowing the test success or failure before the ship sinks.
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Offline ghi

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2016, 08:43:11 AM »
I understand the cv is not carrying a full compliment of aircraft. This outing is to test the new bilge pumps to see if they can keep up with the leaks. The tug is on hand to videotape the waterline to see how the draft changes. Thus knowing the test success or failure before the ship sinks.
:rofl



This smoking ships moving slowly around Europe are like a fishing lure, trolling armies for the battle of Dabiq and Meggido .

« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 08:46:26 AM by ghi »

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2016, 12:53:52 PM »
The worst thing for ANY kind of CV is confined waters. I would call a CV close to shore "confined" as well. Land based aircraft and weapons have just become deadlier and deadlier at longer ranges over the last 30 years. Im starting to wonder if the day of CVs, at least large ones, will be over one day. What with hypersonic, stealth, advanced precision weaponry, better and more Intel assets. Is the day of building 50 to 100 k ton CVs approaching its end?

The answer might be with the new stealthy drone sub hunter we will shortly be deploying. There is no unreachable tech in building stealth 10,000 ton sized semi-submersibles capable of carrying 20 airframes all of which are drones and with a minimal crew to operate it. If the enemy cant track it then its like a Missile boat cause nobody knows its there. These 100,000 ton super CVs with their escort leave such large signatures and even wheeling around in the open ocean they are potentially vulnerable and we leave a lot of eggs in very few baskets.

And now with missiles like the Kh-32 and the Chinese IRBM a threat for CVs its going to become more and more difficult to protect them. I know the USN isnt sitting on its heels but it appears to me the platform itself, like the BB before it, is being surpassed by technological innovation.
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Offline shermanjr

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2016, 03:36:19 PM »
The Admiral Kuznetsov is actually a floating POS.  There is a reason why a tug has to sortie out with the Admiral Kuznetsov when it goes on its cruises as the ship is prone to breaking down and needing to be towed back to port.
so its like a ford...
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2016, 04:49:24 PM »
so its like a ford...

a ford with a hole in the bed from a box falling into it..... while the frame twist and buckles the tailgate......   :rofl
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2016, 06:46:54 AM »
Russia and China are the enemy then :old:

Better?
We both know it's about the pipeline bruh.
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Offline Dawger

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2016, 08:38:10 AM »
https://www.facebook.com/ruposters/videos/917759121687738/

Pretty nice video of air ops on the Kuznetsov.

Offline zack1234

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2016, 02:53:53 PM »
We both know it's about the pipeline bruh.

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Offline NatCigg

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2016, 03:00:16 PM »
https://www.facebook.com/ruposters/videos/917759121687738/

Pretty nice video of air ops on the Kuznetsov.

typical knights, always takeoff without ords.  :angel:

Offline Bodhi

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2016, 10:00:31 AM »
This is nothing more than a PR stunt and an attempt by Putin to show the world that Russia is still "powerful".  The Kuznetsov is mechanically unreliable and it's airwing is hampered by short combat radius and inability to carry full ord load outs.  The Russians are not capable of defending this ship should just about anyone choose to confront them.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Thoughts regarding "Admiral Kuznetsov" deployment to Syria...
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2016, 12:07:33 PM »
It would be awesome if pirates sortied out and took the carrier hostage.  :devil
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