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Author Topic: Is 4GB of RAM Enough  (Read 12297 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« on: January 13, 2018, 04:17:49 PM »
I've been getting some mini-stutters lately and was wondering if it is just time to get a new desktop.    I'm maxed out on RAM.   Originally things ran great on AH3.   Just thinking out loud.   Fresh install of Win7???   6GB vid card???


------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 1/13/2018, 16:15:24
        Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.170913-0600)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: LENOVO
       System Model: H215
               BIOS: LENOVO BIOS Rev: 1.0
          Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
             Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4094MB RAM
          Page File: 2822MB used, 5363MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
          Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
       Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Chip type: GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
           DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1C02&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_A1
     Display Memory: 672 MB
   Dedicated Memory: 2977 MB
      Shared Memory: 1791 MB
       Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
       Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
      Monitor Model: VX238
         Monitor Id: ACI23C1
        Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
        Output Type: HDMI
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2018, 04:53:49 PM »
 Vraciu, is your DXDIAG report from a fresh boot up of your computer?

If not, you should redo it and take your DXDIAG report after a fresh boot....

You posted that AH originally was performing great, but now you are experiencing some mini stuttering

Your Windows 7 OS 64bit pagefile used is extremely high

For a Windows 7 OS it should be between 170+ MB's to 300 MB's used.... You currently are showing roughly 2,500+ MB's too much

Your processes should be between 34 to no more than 52 Max.....

Going from what your DXDIAG report is showing and what you have described, it sounds like you most likely have a bunch of resources running in the background

Try checking out www.blackviper.com to find out how to go about cleaning up and tweaking your Windows 7 OS

Hope this helps

TC

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 05:05:47 PM »
Helps a lot.  I will try it. 

Let me run the fresh boot dxdiag...
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Offline Denniss

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 04:27:58 AM »
that 2822MB memory use is virtual memory use, physical memory + pagefile, not pagefile alone. (common misconception and/or misleading terms used by M$)
Please attach the full dxdiag report so we may see space issues on HDDs etc.
Memory is indeed not much nowadays but CPU may be more of a limiting factor.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 05:17:56 AM »
Denniss, just checking, but are you saying that I am or have misconceptualized what his DXDIAG report is showing regarding "pagefile used, pagefile available"

What suggestions and/or advice do you recommend Vraciu try to figure out what might be causing his recent mini-stuttering, after he reported that AH3 was working great....

What is your reasoning for suggesting that the CPU may be more of a limiting factor? Is it because it is an AMD? or because it is just a dual-core AMD CPU?

His AMD Athlon II x2 250 3.0 GHz dual-core CPU is sufficient for AH3, with it being dual-core and 3.0 GHz....the only thing that might hurt him regarding his CPU, is if he let the recent KB4056894 update install, which is known to have ill effects on older AMD CPUs and components.....

Going back to the pagefile issue.... pagefile used/pagefile available work differently going from
Win98,  WinXP , Vista,  Win 7,  Win 8,  Win 10.....  processes / resources and pagefile give/show more immediate tell-tell signs in Windows 7(Windows 8) and older OSes than they do for Windows 10

Knowing what kind of HardDrives and their size including space used verses available can be helpful, I don't see it being a critical piece of information needed
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 05:34:47 AM »
Vraciu, I would recommend starting to save money for a new Computer, since you mentioned that your current PC rig is already maxed out at 4 GB system ram....although Windows 7 64bit will run/work using only 4 GB, your OS is limited in what it can achieve.....not knowing your PC rig personally, there is a possibility that being limited to just 4 GB system ram could possibly be one of the benefiting factors towards helping the micro-stutters showing up....

Hope my posts have been helpful

TC
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2018, 06:50:03 AM »
Quote from: Denniss on January 14, 2018, 04:27:58 AM
that 2822MB memory use is virtual memory use, physical memory + pagefile, not pagefile alone. (common misconception and/or misleading terms used by M$)
Please attach the full dxdiag report so we may see space issues on HDDs etc.
Memory is indeed not much nowadays but CPU may be more of a limiting factor.

That is not correct at all.

Here is my DXDIAG.
------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 1/14/2018, 06:44:17
       Machine name: BOB
   Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
       System Model: System Product Name
               BIOS: BIOS Date: 08/13/13 19:28:07 Ver: 21.04
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
             Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16328MB RAM
          Page File: 302MB used, 31024MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode

16GB of system RAM, 4) 32GB swap files, with only 302MB being used.  Physical memory used, at the time of the report was right at 2GB.
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Offline Denniss

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2018, 08:36:25 AM »
pagefile report in dxdiag is always (and has always been) virtual memory use.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 08:50:35 AM »
Quote from: Denniss on January 14, 2018, 08:36:25 AM
pagefile report in dxdiag is always (and has always been) virtual memory use.

If that is what you think, then why does Windows OSes use the hard drive (or give an individual) the choice to either let Windows maintain the pagefile, or let the individual have the option to use no pagefile or assign a specific Hard Drive or specific partition and set the pagefile to a specific area as well as specified size to the Hard Drive/partition of choice?

Just curious
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"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline AAIK

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 11:29:03 AM »
Quote from: TequilaChaser on January 14, 2018, 08:50:35 AM
If that is what you think, then why does Windows OSes use the hard drive (or give an individual) the choice to either let Windows maintain the pagefile, or let the individual have the option to use no pagefile or assign a specific Hard Drive or specific partition and set the pagefile to a specific area as well as specified size to the Hard Drive/partition of choice?

Just curious

Just some side advice: Don't mess with the page file in the latest versions of windows. Always leave it on auto. Games will crash if you set it too small.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 12:24:06 PM »
TC, yes you've been a help.   Thank you (and everyone else as well).    I'm considering just getting another MB/CPU and some RAM from TigerDirect and swapping this one out.   I used to build computers so I still remember how.  Just need to be sure the thing will fit in this case and that Windows 7 won't have a heart attack over it.

How much of the DXDiag do you guys want to see?

I do wonder if there is something running in the background that is due to a virus or something similar.   Need to probably fix that before I swap components.

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 1/14/2018, 12:17:17

   Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.170913-0600)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: LENOVO
       System Model: H215
               BIOS: LENOVO BIOS Rev: 1.0
          Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
             Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4094MB RAM
          Page File: 2084MB used, 6101MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
          Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
       Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Chip type: GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
           DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1C02&SUBSYS_00000000&REV_A1
     Display Memory: 4095 MB
   Dedicated Memory: 2977 MB
      Shared Memory: 1118 MB
       Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
       Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
      Monitor Model: VX238
         Monitor Id: ACI23C1
        Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
        Output Type: HDMI
        Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 23.21.0013.9065 (English)
     Driver Version: 23.21.13.9065
        DDI Version: 11
       Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
  Driver Attributes: Final Retail
   Driver Date/Size: 1/3/2018 19:39:57, 18730328 bytes
        WHQL Logo'd: Yes
    WHQL Date Stamp:
  Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-5F42-11CF-D940-0D201BC2DA35}
          Vendor ID: 0x10DE
          Device ID: 0x1C02
          SubSys ID: 0x00000000
        Revision ID: 0x00A1
 Driver Strong Name: oem38.inf:NVIDIA_Devices.NTamd64.6.1:Section147:23.21.13.9065:pci\ven_10de&dev_1c02
     Rank Of Driver: 00E60003
        Video Accel:
   Deinterlace Caps: {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                     {F9F19DA5-3B09-4B2F-9D89-C64753E3EAAB}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
                     {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                     {F9F19DA5-3B09-4B2F-9D89-C64753E3EAAB}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
                     {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                     {F9F19DA5-3B09-4B2F-9D89-C64753E3EAAB}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,0x32315659) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
                     {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                     {F9F19DA5-3B09-4B2F-9D89-C64753E3EAAB}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY
                     {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalSt retch
                     {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC1,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
<MUNCHED>                   

  {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(S342,UNKNOWN) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=
       D3D9 Overlay: Supported
            DXVA-HD: Supported
       DDraw Status: Enabled
         D3D Status: Enabled
         AGP Status: Enabled

-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
            Description: VX238 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio)
 Default Sound Playback: Yes
 Default Voice Playback: Yes
            Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10DE&DEV_0084&SUBSYS_19DA2438&REV_1001
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 100
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: nvhda64v.sys
         Driver Version: 1.03.0036.0006 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: Yes
          Date and Size: 1/3/2018 19:39:57, 226760 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: NVIDIA Corporation
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0xF1F
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
            Description: Microphone (5- USB Audio Device)
  Default Sound Capture: Yes
  Default Voice Capture: Yes
            Driver Name: USBAUDIO.sys
         Driver Version: 6.01.7601.18208 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
          Date and Size: 7/12/2013 04:40:58, 109824 bytes
              Cap Flags: 0x1
           Format Flags: 0xFFFFF

-------------------
DirectInput Devices
-------------------
      Device Name: Mouse
         Attached: 1
    Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
        FF Driver: n/a

      Device Name: Keyboard
         Attached: 1
    Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
        FF Driver: n/a

      Device Name: SideWinder Precision 2 Joystick
         Attached: 1
    Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x045E, 0x0038
        FF Driver: n/a

      Device Name: Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000
         Attached: 1
    Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x045E, 0x00DD
        FF Driver: n/a

Poll w/ Interrupt: No

-----------
USB Devices
-----------
+ USB Root Hub
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x1002, 0x4398
| Matching Device ID: usb\root_hub
| Service: usbhub

----------------
Gameport Devices
----------------

------------
PS/2 Devices
------------
+ HID Keyboard Device
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x045E, 0x00DD
| Matching Device ID: hid_device_system_keyboard
| Service: kbdhid
|
+ Terminal Server Keyboard Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_kbd
| Upper Filters: kbdclass
| Service: TermDD
|
+ Logitech USB Wheel Mouse
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC00E
| Matching Device ID: hid\vid_046d&pid_c00e
| Service: mouhid
|
+ Terminal Server Mouse Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_mou
| Upper Filters: mouclass
| Service: TermDD

------------------------
Disk & DVD/CD-ROM Drives
------------------------
      Drive: B:
 Free Space: 301.0 GB
Total Space: 953.9 GB
File System: NTFS
      Model: Hitachi HDS721010CLA332 ATA Device

      Drive: C:
 Free Space: 377.7 GB
Total Space: 928.1 GB
File System: NTFS
      Model: Hitachi HDS721010CLA332 ATA Device

      Drive: D:
      Model: TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653G ATA Device
     Driver: c:\windows\system32\drivers\cdrom.sys, 6.01.7601.17514 (English), , 0 bytes
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 12:50:08 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 12:33:18 PM »
AAlK, I'm assuming you didn't mean to quote my post and direct your "side advice" towards me,

 but actually meant to post your side advice for the AH community....

I would recommend anyone who is unfamiliar with the pagefile and how it works to leave it alone and let Windows maintain it!

If you want to learn how to clean up your Windows OS and tweak it for better performance, do your homework and research studying on what items do what, etc....

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"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Bizman

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 12:42:30 PM »
Quote
I do wonder if there is something running in the background...

When was the last time you got Windows Updates? You can find that in (Control Panel)/Windows Update>Update history. If that hasn't happened for months, check your TaskManager, Processes tab sorted by CPU usage. If there's a svchost.exe continuously taking the power of one single core, right click it and choose Go to Service(s). If that shows wuauserv/Windows Update, you've found an issue.

If the above is what's hogging your resources, there's only one true cure I've found so far during the couple of years it has been plaguing Win7 systems: Make sure your Power Management scheme is set to Best Performance and let your computer run until the missing updates have arrived. It will take a couple of days. When the shield icon appears over the Shutdown button in the Start Menu, you can shut down your computer.
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Quote from: BaldEagl, applies to myself, too
I've got an older system by today's standards that still runs the game well by my standards.

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 12:51:53 PM »
Vraciu, are you using the Sound capability of your 1060 VC? and if so have you disabled your onboard sound driver?

You are showing 2 identical Hard Drives for Drive C: and Drive B: and they both are close to having the same amount of free space.....are you using Raid "0" (mirroring) by any chance? Just curious

It also is possible to be getting micro-stutters from using that usbaudio.sys driver, possibly
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"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 12:54:27 PM »
Quote from: TequilaChaser on January 14, 2018, 12:51:53 PM
Vraciu, are you using the Sound capability of your 1060 VC? and if so have you disabled your onboard sound driver?

You are showing 2 identical Hard Drives for Drive C: and Drive B: and they both are close to having the same amount of free space.....are you using Raid "0" (mirroring) by any chance? Just curious

It also is possible to be getting micro-stutters from using that usbaudio.sys driver, possibly

Onboard sound, yes.   
RAID, no.

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