ok..dont laugh...SUBMARINES, limited

[bustr]

Seems if I am to take Fork as the industry expert on our game, I should delete my current terrain project, my AH account, and find a WT squad. Then tell everyone I meet at WT AH is about to go belly up because I have it on good authority from an inside expert with his finger on the pulse of HTC.

And here I was going to roll out a task group furball arena in the center of my new project to throw a CC\BB group from each country at each other inside of a center sector pond. Kind of like those tiny arenas in the competitor's timed battle boat matches. I mean Hitech needs testing and feed back some how to see if it's worth investing his valuable time programing something new like he used my first terrain to test the BB task group. I guess most importantly, because Fork has declared himslef an industry expert who is wailing away at the top of his lungs that the HTC sky is falling.

I don't see Fork or Alpini doing what I am doing with terrains to help Hitech see how his customers utilize his toys and his arenas. As always "talk is cheap" and ground on a bitter wheel with a personal AX that has someone's name etched on it with acrimony. And they just love to talk as many as they can into joining them in that burning pot of acrimony.

OK lets pass the hat to get a few crying towels in here.

[Wiley]

The brutal point is this - if something doesn't change to drastically increase the number of players in Aces High - like adding Aces Deep to the MA, we can only expect this game to last a little while longer before it is no longer operable at current subscription rates.

Adding another gameplay elements could give it a deeper audience other than pilot enthusiasts, is perhaps the easiest way to add another 1-2000 players initially, and if it takes off, then HTC can hire a team of aircraft and vehicle builders to expand upon the game.

I'm only speaking about the data I see...and the future isn't pretty. 

And for all of you to go "sorry, this isn't a sub game", well, it isn't a tank game either, yet here we are. I mean honestly, if HTC adds player controllable destroyers and subs, and another 2000 players show up, ya'll be like "frack off, this is a pilots game ya navy bastiges!" 

No, you'd all be 

Forgetting about everything else, if the game gets this mythical 2000 submarine players, explain in detail how that will improve the aircraft players' game?  Because there'll now be a bunch of submarines under the water we're flying over?

Wiley.

[Lusche]

Forgetting about everything else, if the game gets this mythical 2000 submarine players, explain in detail how that will improve the aircraft players' game?  Because there'll now be a bunch of submarines under the water we're flying over?

It would be unlikely they only would do subbing all of the time, just like 'tankers' don't do tanking exclusively.
Also, planes hunt submarines. 

[bustr]

Here for the Aces Low community who want sea battles, I posted this in another post in the General forum that Mongoose put up concerning a terrain I built for him last week.

You gents can always have mega sea battles or duels because all of the tools to quickly( it would take me 60 minutes) to create a task group dueling arena and put it up on the custom arena HOST. You have always had the ability to act upon your wishes just like every other player has, and like I've doing for the last 15 months.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,391568.0.html

 from the other post:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that we have the ability to use negative elevations to lower objects below ground level, arch and circle objects say 1000ft dia .25-1mile long could be set into a thin volcanic wall. Then a terrain for squad level dueling setup say 8x8miles 5,000ft deep with a maze of walls and spires that have those objects set into them.

But, they might end up working like driving your PT under a bridge where for a moment you are set on the road bed during the transit and then back into the PT out the other side. You would have to discuss that phenomenon with Hitech. I've had it not happen when the space under the bridge road bed was at the maximum length of exposed support legs. So maybe there is a proximity issue.

Heck even a 19x19 pond for dueling with task groups, or a 25 mile pond shape with the center easily holding a 19x19 square. Then set the task groups on a patrol just out of visual range and let players man the guns and planes. At which point the duel is who sinks the CV first with a CM who can reset the boats for the next match. There would be a place for independent destroyers with active torpedo tubes and even a Cruiser task group to run interference. And there would be no land based bombers to get in the way, just carrier planes.

For a task group dueling arena anyone can create it since land dosen't have to be pretty. Still it would work better to border the dueling pond with land to keep the ships in the arena. You only put in a port and HQ for each country. You gotta have those for each of the three countries or the HOST won't accept the terrain. Just don't populate any task groups for one country.

[Mister Fork]

It would be unlikely they only would do subbing all of the time, just like 'tankers' don't do tanking exclusively.
Also, planes hunt submarines. 

My point all along - they'll eventually end up in cockpits and gunnery seats.

Seems if I am to take Fork as the industry expert on our game, I should delete my current terrain project, my AH account, and find a WT squad. Then tell everyone I meet at WT AH is about to go belly up because I have it on good authority from an inside expert with his finger on the pulse of HTC.

And here I was going to roll out a task group furball arena in the center of my new project to throw a CC\BB group from each country at each other inside of a center sector pond. Kind of like those tiny arenas in the competitor's timed battle boat matches. I mean Hitech needs testing and feed back some how to see if it's worth investing his valuable time programing something new like he used my first terrain to test the BB task group. I guess most importantly, because Fork has declared himslef an industry expert who is wailing away at the top of his lungs that the HTC sky is falling.

I don't see Fork or Alpini doing what I am doing with terrains to help Hitech see how his customers utilize his toys and his arenas. As always "talk is cheap" and ground on a bitter wheel with a personal AX that has someone's name etched on it with acrimony. And they just love to talk as many as they can into joining them in that burning pot of acrimony.

OK lets pass the hat to get a few crying towels in here.

Bustr - I'm not going to swing out my schlong to prove my length of gaming industry experience in interface and design (which I have) because like you I'm invested in HTC's Aces High. We all have the same intent in mind - you designing AMAZING maps, me thinking about how we can improve this fantastic MMO WWII aircraft war simulator. 

Bustr - How do you know how to make the right kind of maps? Because you play the game (in addition to hundreds of others prior) and you know what makes a good map.  Nobody questions that. Ever.  (Some try, and fail spectacularly to our entertainment). 

Anyways, I am in the same mindset as you - except I'm thinking about long term gaming architecture and gameplay design to increase our use base and experience by adding player controlled destroyers and subs (even if we start with just mini-subs). Just like I did over 15 years ago for another successful game series today.  What I'm talking about is fundamentally shifting the focus for a bit on a different style of gameplay (naval) to help increase the membership and the war game dynamics. 

Cause I'm tired of logging in and fly around for 20 minutes desperate for a fight at 15'000 ft with 130 players online on a Friday at 8pm with a map designed for 750.

[Wiley]

It would be unlikely they only would do subbing all of the time, just like 'tankers' don't do tanking exclusively.
Also, planes hunt submarines. 

I just don't get it.  I've seen your stats.  I believe your stats.  I just don't understand why it is so often when I log in what I see looks like the ratio of aircraft to GVs just doesn't seem to reflect it.  At times 100+ people on, enough bardar for at best 10 enemy aircraft on both fronts.

Wiley.

[Oldman731]

I don't see Fork or Alpini doing what I am doing with terrains to help Hitech see how his customers utilize his toys and his arenas. As always "talk is cheap" and ground on a bitter wheel with a personal AX that has someone's name etched on it with acrimony. And they just love to talk as many as they can into joining them in that burning pot of acrimony.

OK lets pass the hat to get a few crying towels in here.

I don't see Fork or Alpini being this unpleasant, either.  Both are suggesting ways in which the game can be changed in a way which might attract more players.  If people making such suggestions are to be restricted to those who make maps...well, the two of you enjoy your little room together.

- oldman

[bustr]

Their complaints run the bleeding edge of a flame that stops just short of point blank telling perspective new players reading them to not take part in this game because of: "I am mad at Hitech so his game is crashing and burning."

There is a cadre of vets who seem to be self infected with this chicken little virus. Some are so infected it superficially looks like turrets syndrome when they talk about Hitech, while others are convinced they have only Hitech's best interests at heart while the baby fly's out the window with the bath water that just broke it's glass.

Ultimately one has to wonder if they are assisting the competition regardless of the motivation. I choose to build terrains and test ideas to help game play instead of telling the world I think the HTC sky is falling in concert with every opening provided by the chicken little virus. Not a bad measuring stick of player concern for this game or, do I have to get infected with the chicken little virus to properly signal my virtue and solidarity?

[Lusche]

I just don't get it.  I've seen your stats.  I believe your stats.  I just don't understand why it is so often when I log in what I see looks like the ratio of aircraft to GVs just doesn't seem to reflect it.  At times 100+ people on, enough bardar for at best 10 enemy aircraft on both fronts.

Wiley.

100 people on often just means only 60 people  "inflight". That's only 20 per side. Deduct one or two in manned guns, then something like 5 in GV, and you are down to 13 already.
Also, GV usage can vary immensely, driving vehicle to an enemy base is much more attractive to players when nothing else does happen. During low hours (euro day time) you can indeed have moments with >50% of 'inflight' players being in vehicles.

[Mister Fork]

Their complaints run the bleeding edge of a flame that stops just short of point blank telling perspective new players reading them to not take part in this game because of: "I am mad at Hitech so his game is crashing and burning."

There is a cadre of vets who seem to be self infected with this chicken little virus. Some are so infected it superficially looks like turrets syndrome when they talk about Hitech, while others are convinced they have only Hitech's best interests at heart while the baby fly's out the window with the bath water that just broke it's glass.

Ultimately one has to wonder if they are assisting the competition regardless of the motivation. I choose to build terrains and test ideas to help game play instead of telling the world I think the HTC sky is falling in concert with every opening provided by the chicken little virus. Not a bad measuring stick of player concern for this game or, do I have to get infected with the chicken little virus to properly signal my virtue and solidarity?

Neither...we're not saying the sky is falling. And I'm not a vet who thinks the sky is falling - we just want to ensure that HTC is successful long term - current subscriber base IS keeping this company going otherwise we wouldn't be beer... I mean here (dang u Friday brain  )

What we're proposing is a substantial enhancement to an already excellent platform.

And what we're actually saying is that by attracting more players to this sim with destroyers and subs, most will actually end up flying as well, or tanking. Or manning AAA guns in a CV or BB formation. Or running suppliers to a damaged field. Or flying troops NOE in a C-47 to an airfield.  That is what Lusche is also saying... plus he likes to sink subs from his plane.

Plus, for those of us who fly, it gives us a lot more interesting targets and more players if our membership base grows.  Win win IMHO.

[alpini13]

i like the idea of subs being hunted by planes...that would be awesome

[Arlo]

i like the idea of subs being hunted by planes...that would be awesome

Did it for a living. Not as exciting an element to add to AH as you might think.

[Arlo]

You gents can always have mega sea battles or duels because all of the tools to quickly( it would take me 60 minutes) to create a task group dueling arena and put it up on the custom arena HOST. You have always had the ability to act upon your wishes just like every other player has, and like I've doing for the last 15 months.

I appreciate what you do for this community, Bustr, and the project you describe is exactly the terrain I wanted to design (but, damn, I still find the TE a hard tool to use - especially when time is once again a rare commodity). Don't fret all who claim that this game/community is dying and only they know what will breathe life back into it. The wishlist was never about game cpr, in my opinion. It was just about wishes (some good, some bad, some ugly).

[Mano]

Every single one of us wants AH to succeed. We have all put in allot of time in this game because it is fun. If anyone posts a suggestion here accept it or don't accept it, but don't discourage others from leaving a post in this forum.

Everyone that plays has a different point of view. We all have different interests in game play in Aces High and there is allot to keep us entertained on any given night.

The Wishlist is here for everyone to make a suggestion. If it is a good idea and it can be programmed, then HiTech will implement it. We have seen
allot of positive improvements over the years and it will continue to grow. Optimism Ladies and Gents.

 

[bustr]

I appreciate what you so for this community, Bustr, and the project you describe is exactly the terrain I wanted to design (but, damn, I still find the TE a hard tool to use - especially when time is once again a rare commodity). Don't fret all who claim that this game/community is dying and only they know what will breathe life back into it. The wishlist was never about game cpr, in my opinion. It was just about wishes (some good, some bad, some ugly).

I will make this one for you just for the custom arena HOST with three ports\HQ and two CV\BB task groups at each port in a task group dueling pond limited to a 19x19 area. Just like I did for Mongoose and his two side beginners terrain called Mongoose where he wants to help newbies get their chops up. I'll post this up on the HOST and make the project files available to you in a zip file after you check it out offline at home to verify it does what you want. After that I have no clue how you get people in to do task group dueling.

So you want a task group dueling arena for the custom terrain HOST? Since you will have the project files, you can make any changes you want after that. I like the idea and I think you are the guy to pull it off if it's going to happen.


Here is a screen shot of what Mongoose asked me to make for him.