Author Topic: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse  (Read 35900 times)

Offline Wiley

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #420 on: November 07, 2019, 10:10:31 AM »
A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

Ignoring the fact that not every delayed game winds up being eventually good...

Thank you, Archie.  Thank you for a desperately needed belly laugh on a cold November morning.  Applying a quote from a man whose worst game ever produced still sold millions and comparing him to Wild Bill and IENT...  That is truly monumental... something.

Wiley.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #421 on: November 07, 2019, 12:22:00 PM »
Guys, there is a difference between being in development limbo and being delayed. Also releasing too early is a problem; it is true what archie said, just remember WW2OL.

Blizzard always (used to at least) waited till the game was perfect before releasing as an example and look how successful they have been.

The point is that its like cooking, you cant overcook it or under cook it, it has to be just right. The only thing we are discussing here is if there is actually anyone in the kitchen to begin with.


I reject your basic premise. 

I don't believe this is a team that is converging in on a release and they just need a little more time to put the final polish on and make it perfect.

They are not refining, they are floundering.  They are starting completely over again with an entirely new engine.  Because someone obviously didn't do the most basic technological due diligence before vectoring their entire flagship product down that path.

I was shocked when I read they were going to use the UR4 engine.  UR4 is a powerful engine, but not optimized for the type of game Warbirds is.  Any amateur game programmer probably knows there is a whole host of potential problems.  I think Unreal limits their physics something like 12km from origin due to floating-point imprecision causing movement jitters and collision test failure past that.  They have a world origin shifting capability, but last time I saw that didn't support multi-player.  It just wasn't designed for large scale terrain (hundreds of km) open worlds.

Regardless, it should have been obvious that was a high risk decision (if you did like 30 min of Googling) and there should have been careful prototyping to prove out that engine compatibility with their requirements. 

I assumed someone had done that.  I was mildly intrigued and interested to see how they were going to pull it off.  I assumed they had come up with a clever workaround or was prototyping an advanced implementation from Epic.  It turns out, no, someone just had their heads up their wazoo.

Everything I've seen so far, from the failure to choose the proper engine, to that embarrassingly bad rivet-plane, suggests to me the delay isn't because these guys aren't perfectionists.  It suggests they are clueless dolts who are in way over their head.

If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow and tilt them a beer.  But to do that, they will need to release something impressive.  My guess is Oct 2019 turned to Feb 2020 and that will turn to Summer 2020 and that will turn to Winter 2020, etc, etc.  So, I'm feeling pretty safe at the moment.  And they still haven't even had the basic courtesy to give their players on the WB BBS an update letting them know the situation and the delay.  Maybe they are just too embarrassed.  They should be.

:rolleyes:

 


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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #422 on: November 07, 2019, 01:04:14 PM »
A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.

That comment shows how little you really know about any sort of game development.  There are hundreds of games that have been delayed only to be crap once released.  Duke Nukem Forever being on of the better known.
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Offline Drano

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #423 on: November 07, 2019, 03:12:34 PM »
That comment shows how little you really know about any sort of game development.  There are hundreds of games that have been delayed only to be crap once released.  Duke Nukem Forever being on of the better known.
Quit reminding me of that! I really loved me some Duke! Hail to the king, baby!

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Offline Archie

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #424 on: November 08, 2019, 05:43:25 AM »
That comment shows how little you really know about any sort of game development.  There are hundreds of games that have been delayed only to be crap once released.  Duke Nukem Forever being on of the better known.

It's a quote by Shigeru Miyamoto

Quote
  But to do that, they will need to release something impressive

It's a coming, and it will bedazzle  :old:

Offline AAIK

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #425 on: November 08, 2019, 07:29:55 AM »
Archie there is no guarantee that it will be any good when its released even if its given proper time; are any of the programmers geniuses? What do we know about the real people doing the work?

I was saying that a product must be "cooked" right for it to be any good but cooking still takes talent. We don't know anything about the people behind it so there is no guarantee to have a well refined finished product. We can only hope at this point.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #426 on: November 08, 2019, 08:07:49 AM »
It's a quote by Shigeru Miyamoto

It's a coming, and it will bedazzle  :old:

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

(We are being punk'd so hard here.)
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #427 on: November 08, 2019, 09:09:08 AM »
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

(We are being punk'd so hard here.)

I am surprised he is not dragging Edith or Meathead into this.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #428 on: November 08, 2019, 09:51:35 AM »

Hey Archie, why don't you go post on the WB BBS and let them know about the delay and the reasons. 

Don't you think their own customers have a right to be as informed as a competitor's players?

Go do some good for a change. 
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #429 on: November 08, 2019, 04:04:11 PM »
^^^^ What those two guys said. 
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #430 on: November 08, 2019, 09:01:49 PM »
I see they released a preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Offline Archie

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #431 on: November 09, 2019, 02:03:38 AM »
Archie there is no guarantee that it will be any good when its released even if its given proper time

That's true, however I think that if they did not want a quality product, they would just release what they have now to earn some quick buck and call it a day.

Quote
are any of the programmers geniuses? What do we know about the real people doing the work?

I don't know if there are any geniuses....... the coder that is doing the work is Mr. David Lagettie, he owns the commercial license for Outerra engine ( it can render whole world) and he built a military simulator out of it (Titanim) for the military forces around the world.

Before that he created Virtual Battle Simulator which was also for military and was based on Bohemia Interactive 'Armed Assault' series.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 02:05:10 AM by Archie »

Offline Archie

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #432 on: November 09, 2019, 02:18:28 AM »
Here you can see what he has created a few years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hkEuwa41bc

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #433 on: November 09, 2019, 09:45:58 AM »
Go give them an update like you gave us, Archie.

http://bhlanding.ient.com/warbirdsforum/viewforum.php?f=8
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Return of Wild Bill and MicroProse
« Reply #434 on: November 09, 2019, 09:47:11 AM »
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