Poland

[Eagler]

I wasn't speaking about Russia going bankrupt - I could care less- I was speaking about the United States in particular and its allies after that..

Your weird thinking again man...

Eagler

[CptTrips]

I wasn't speaking about Russia going bankrupt - I could care less- I was speaking about the United States in particular and its allies after that..

Your weird thinking again man...

Everything we have given to aid Ukraine is a tiny sliver of our military budget.

Mostly rotating out old stuff at it's use by date so we can replace with new stuff.

Time to spool up the arms manufacturing to full capacity anyway. 

Ukraine is step one if not stopped, then expect Taiwan as step two.  Mid-East\Persian war thrown in for a bonus.

Sing Kumbaya all you want.  It won't make a difference.  The choices will be submit to Russia, China, and Iran or fight.

Unless we utterly and completely crush Russia in Ukraine and Putin ends up on a meat-hook like Mussolini, and China and Iran decide they don't want any of THAT.

Because any weakness, any at all, will only encourage the aggressors further.

[LCADolby]

Thank you very much for your intelligent expert analysis. With how many Ukrainians have you been talking with? Do you know anyone who was there then?

May everyone become blessed in his faith. I trust more eyewitness stories.

You're very much welcome. I've worked and conversed along side a Ukrainian, lived there all his life until he "broke.. his. head" (That's a direct pigeon English quote minus the accent) in combat against Russia. His family fled here to where I live and he had to wait about a year until he was able to escape also. Eyewitnesses are great especially when they have seen both sides. To paraphrase "It's no good what we are doing to each other".

[TheBug]

The world is a sick place

Used to think it was a nice place with a few bad players but now thinks it's a crap show with just a few good souls

Eagler

It's been the same world for a long, long time....

[Meatwad]

And so it grows..hamas using US weapons against Israel



Comments are telling

Eagler

Wonder which middle east country those came from? Almost like a huge stockpile of US weaponry was somehow left behind somewhere and it got found by the bad guys. Or the "good" bad guys that had them sold them to the "bad" bad guys for lots of $$$$

[GasTeddy]

You're very much welcome. I've worked and conversed along side a Ukrainian, lived there all his life until he "broke.. his. head" (That's a direct pigeon English quote minus the accent) in combat against Russia. His family fled here to where I live and he had to wait about a year until he was able to escape also. Eyewitnesses are great especially when they have seen both sides. To paraphrase "It's no good what we are doing to each other".

Thank you as well. So we both base our opinion on eyewitnesses stories. And still, IMHO Russia is much more to blame in this conflict. What I've been told, there were tension between people but serious violence was started by separatists, especially after "green men" showed up 2014. Even Alexander Borodai, Prime Minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic, stated that 50,000 Russian citizens fought in the Donbas up to August 2015.

Wikipedia is perhaps not the most independent and neutral source of information but still much more reliable than russian sources and it summons up here happenings with Minsk Agreement .

But the conflict itself was initiated much earlier, little by little feeding folks with propaganda of nazis and satanists in Ukraine, just like those concentration camps run by Finns in Eastern Karelia. Camps, which soviets found no traces after war but suddenly they were found by Putins investigators 70 years later.

[Eagler]

Didn't it go south (bad) in Ukraine after 2014?

I don't think we can discuss that time period as it goes from war to more political but I thought that was the start of this as there has been fighting since then..

Also can any of the locals or eye witnesses state what the shape of Ukraine was before the invasion?

I was under the impression it was as corrupt as they come.

Like a little Mexico minus the Spanish speaking cartel..

But now it must be saved at all costs..

What am I missing?

Is it the Russians will take over the globe like 1930's Germany if they are not stopped?

I think that reason is losing steam among many...

Or is it just the next war we are supposed to get behind because we are told to or you are a Russian troll..

Like most other things lately, conform or you are silenced

Can we at least spend as much on our border as we do on Ukraines?

Can we try to keep our  borders are secure as theirs?

Might help their war cause...right now many don't understand that discrepancy at all.

Eagler

[artik]

Not sure how Israel missed an operation with a scope so large..

Or they didn't miss anything and now appreciate the opportunity for revenge

It is same simple negligence like it was in Yom Kippur war likely. Probably there was lots of intel but it was ignored due to concept that Hamas tries to become governing organization and not a bloody murderers and terrorists,

It is our 9/11...

[Eagler]

It is same simple negligence like it was in Yom Kippur war likely. Probably there was lots of intel but it was ignored due to concept that Hamas tries to become governing organization and not a bloody murderers and terrorists,

It is our 9/11...

I don't think the middle east will be the same when this latest action is completed..

It is setup for a long response from Israel

Curious to how far it will spread...Lebanon,  Iran,  etc...

The war on terror gets a fresh infusion of possibilities for everyone..

The hate is strong

Eagler

[icepac]

[CptTrips]

The war on terror gets a fresh infusion of possibilities for everyone..

And what is your solution Eagler?  Appeasement?

Should Israel appease Hamas now?  Should Israel appease Iran now?  Is that what you'd like to see?  You will reply you want "peace"  but that is your dog-whistle for appeasement.
Peace at any cost IS appeasement.  Doing nothing is also appeasement.

Russia doesn't want to take over the world, but it wants to take over Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Finland too if they get on a roll.  The hardliners want to retake the Soviet geographical defensive choke points while they still have the demographics to pull it off.   And they don't care about their casualties because they are betting on the Quisling Fifth Columnists Useful Idiots in the West to weaken the resolve to resist and they can out-bleed us with a higher pain tolerance.  And there is always a supply to Useful Idiots in the West ready to serve them.

China doesn't want to take over the world, just Asia.  Do you want China to take over Taiwan and 90% of the high end computer chip manufacturing?  Would that make the world a better place?  Would the world be a better place if China who gets to decide who gets computers and cell phones?  What might they put in all those chips the allow the world to have?  Backdoors maybe?  It would take us a decade for the West to replace the Taiwan chip capacity.  A decade of Chinese domination of the West?  You want that?

Iran doesn't want to take over the world.  It wants to destroy Israel and take control of the Mid-East and it's oil.    Would that make the world a better place?  A nuclear armed Iran with it's boot on the throat of the Western economies Able to dictate terms or they cut off the worlds oil? 

Peace at any price isn't a durable peace.  It's appeasement.  It's submission.  It's slavery.


I truly believe that you would have called for us to make peace with Nazi Germany.  I truly believe that you would have blamed America First and said it was our fault that Japan attacked us, and called for us to make peace with the Empire of Japan.  We had your type even back then. 


When you say you want "peace", what you are really trying to say is you want appeasement.  You want submission.  You want the aggressors to win and the West to not fight back because in your mind America (especially the government) and the West are always the ones who are really at fault.

[Eagler]

No when I say I want peace I want peace

I want the leaders of the world to see the foolishness in their ways

I want ppl to see the foolishness of our leaders

I want a spiritual revolution that I guess is nowhere near

You are stuck on the word appeasement for some reason...while almost sounding crazed with the possibility of future and continuing growing war and death...

You must be beside yourself these days excited with all the possibilities

I was you in 2001, but I grew out of that way of thinking

Praying for peace here

Eagler

[CptTrips]

No when I say I want peace I want peace

You're hiding behind the word "peace".  What you are dog-whistling is appeasement.  Let me prove it.

Should Russia be driven back out of Ukraine (including Crimea) and back to it's own borders?  Should they be driven out by force if necessary even if the cost is high?


Yes or no?

[Eagler]

How high is the cost?

I can't answer that until I  know the answer to that

Questions for you..

Do you think Ukraine would have half the support it had/has (it seems to be waning ) from its European buddies if the United States wasn't involved?

Why is it a larger issue for the US than Europe?

Don't worry you will have your wars to cheer on..

Eagler

[CptTrips]

How high is the cost?

How high a cost are you willing to spend to defend NATO?  Because that is the next target.  The second you set a limit, they know how to manipulate you.

How high a cost would you be willing to pay for your freedom?  Is there a price at which you would sell us out?

I'd say 20% of our military budget over two years sent as support and training would be enough to utterly obliterate Russian forces in Ukraine and stop them cold and push them out leading to Russia current government collapsing as well as the Russian economy.  Stop popsicle-footing around.  Abrams, F-16, enough ordinance to drown them in shrapnel from smart weapons.  The sanctions are working. Their economy will collapse like the Soviets.  With only 5% they are already likely to approach 400k casualties.  Now double that, then double it again.  20% of our might would obliterate them.

If we are strong in Ukraine, we avoid fighting in NATO countries.  You want peace?  Peace can only be had through strength.  Show the slightest weakness in Ukraine, and you guarantee war in Poland, Taiwan, mid-East.   They are testing our resolve.  Your first instinct is to show weakness.  That guarantees a broader war.

Questions for you..

Do you think Ukraine would have half the support it had/has (it seems to be waning ) from its European buddies if the United States wasn't involved?

Why is it a larger issue for the US than Europe?

I think many of the European have given a much larger percentage of their GDP in aid than the US. 

Specifically, the Tracker lists a total of €156 billion commitments by all main European donors (EU and non-EU), compared to less than €70 billion by the US.Sep 7, 2023

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/ukraine-support-tracker-europe-clearly-overtakes-us-with-total-commitments-now-twice-as-large/#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20the%20Tracker%20lists%20a,70%20billion%20by%20the%20US.

I think we all know that when NATO comes next you will then make the argument of why are we supporting NATO?  Why is that our problem?  What about our problems?

Because that is the technique the Kremlin has taught you.  Whether you realize it or not.  Divide and conquer.  Weaken and destroy from within.