Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable

[Animl-AW]

Sig line.

You just replied to my post with description of yourself.

[AKIron]

You have a bigger audience to post it to. I could post a vid of chewing gum in DCS and get 20k views.

I just never seem to see much fighting vids from DCS. it's more along the line of look at pretty graphics and buttons.

The video plays just fine. How old are you? 12?

So post one and prove it. Saying you can post any DCS video and get thousands of views kind of refutes your frequent comments about no one playing it.

I just posted one here of a fight. Maybe you didn't see it.

[AKIron]

It is expected that 99% of the games you pay for up front, non-subscription, you'll be able to play until you tire of them. For most people that's usually not very long. With ED making continual improvements to the base game folks buy the various modules expecting to enjoy them for decades to come perhaps. The current situation with Razbam exposes how fragile that system is when third party developers are involved. Will ED survive? Like most everything, no. The question is how long.

[The Fugitive]

The video plays just fine. How old are you? 12?

So post one and prove it. Saying you can post any DCS video and get thousands of views kind of refutes your frequent comments about no one playing it.

I just posted one here of a fight. Maybe you didn't see it.

BORING!!! 

Ya know, I reinstalled DCS, setup the A-4, setup the controls and jumped into a few quick mission avoiding any pre-flight crap. I shot down a helo and made a number of runs on ground targets, even landed ok the first flight. But I just cant be bothered with spending the tie to get comfortable enough to try an on line server.

Watching the video, you "fought" an AI pilot, IF you want to call that a fight. To me there is just no excitement in any of this. The AI was an "ace", he didn't look all that good to me. I dont know the planes strength/weaknesses so was the climb the right move? And his mistake, no not the chaff, or two horrible rocket launches (does an ACE even know how to lock on?), but to follow you down and give you an easy over shoot so you got a lock on him and took him out. Ace???? Far too easy a mark from what I can see.

To me DCS looks like a game where you spend hundreds of dollars, and hundreds of hours training to fight poorly built AI. Boring!

The cockpit graphics are awesome, but then again vs AH if you have an average computer by the time everything is drawn Im already fighting for my life in AH. Maybe its my attention span. I cant do scenarios either because they are just too boring. And before someone says something about ADD, ADHD, or ABCDEFG Im 65 years old and just dont have the time to waste!

While AH is an older game and the graphics are not up to todays standards the action I crave is still there. Be it in a bomber on a raid, hiding in some brush in a tank or fighting for my cartoon life in a fighter it is still there. In your video the action starts almost 2 minutes in, plus what ever time it took to setup the mission all for two crappy passes and one missle launch for a take down. No action!

Im on the verge of removing DCS again, it just cant hold my interest. While AH on the other hand gets me excited anticipating Saturday night when I get the whole night to play. To each there own I guess.

[AKIron]

Delete it, I don't care. If you haven't fought Migs with AI set to Ace you really don't know what you're talking about. It isn't easy.

[AKIron]

My DCS videos get a lot more interest than any AH videos you or Animl will post though. Interest. Prove me wrong.

[AKIron]

AH is not really older than DCS World if you consider that DCS World is the continuation of Eagle Dynamics single player flight sims. You must consider that evolution if you are going to allow that Aces High I is the same game as Aces High III. No point in mentioning this other than to point out your misconception.

[The Fugitive]

Delete it, I don't care. If you haven't fought Migs with AI set to Ace you really don't know what you're talking about. It isn't easy.

LOL!!! Iron Im not trying to give you a hard time or anything Im just posting my experience with DCS. You certainly made it look very easy in the video. "Easy" to me is boring, no challenge, so that is what I saw.

As for films.... who cares. I dont make films. Of the films I have viewed on youtube of both AH and DCS neither are all that compelling. The majority of the films are the "Look at me and all my great kills!" type, or training films. Granted there are a few epic films, but I dont have time to watch them. Most have far to much climbing out and forming up trying to build tension before the big battle. DCS seems to have a lot of training films, but Im sure that is because DCS players spend a lot more time training to fly than flying on DCS. I was also wondering about videos. I dont think youtube was as easy to access for uploading 20 years ago as it is these days. Back then it was more for watching "cat " videos. During AH heydays of 500-600 players on a night it would have been interesting to see how AH youtube video would have been received.

AH is on its long slow downward trend, DSC may be at its peak which is why more people see and make videos for it. Only time will tell at this point.

Im not "trashing" DCS, you or anyone who plays it (dont put me in the same boat as Animal), I was just pointing out why its not for me. The same goes for MS Fight Simulator. I find that one even more boring than DCS, but it has its nitch of followers who enjoy mapping out routes chatting with the towers and flying those long flights across country to land in Vegas.

[Banshee7]

But I just cant be bothered with spending the tie to get comfortable enough to try an on line server.

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever get to the point of flying against others.  IDK. We shall see I guess.  I've only scratched the surface so far.  I haven't played as much as I thought I would, but the summer has only just begun.  I think I'll fly more and get more into it if I were to actually purchase the F-16, since that is the plane I really wanted to learn (although I hear that it isn't modeled correctly and the F18 is a better plane...don't know a thing about that). 

I'm not giving up.  I'm also trying to get used to TrackIR, so there's a lot going on here 

[AKIron]

Okay. Animl and his constant attempts to belittle made me a little defensive. I've set up and posted many 1 on 1 guns only videos in various aircraft vs Ace level AI. It's not easy because the AI cheats (doesn't abide by the same in game physics real players do). You want a very challenging fight that might have you uninstalling DCS try an F-86 vs an Ace level AI Mig-15.

For some reason I can't recall I deleted those videos. I think my dogs ate 'em.

[AKIron]

Yeah, I don't think I'll ever get to the point of flying against others.  IDK. We shall see I guess.  I've only scratched the surface so far.  I haven't played as much as I thought I would, but the summer has only just begun.  I think I'll fly more and get more into it if I were to actually purchase the F-16, since that is the plane I really wanted to learn (although I hear that it isn't modeled correctly and the F18 is a better plane...don't know a thing about that). 

I'm not giving up.  I'm also trying to get used to TrackIR, so there's a lot going on here 

I have the F-16 and F-18. Both are excellent but knowing what I know now I'd buy the F-18 first if I had neither.

Brother and I spent a while yesterday learning how to use the LGB with the ATFLIR in the F-18. Satisfying for us.

[CptTrips]

As for films.... who cares. I dont make films.

The point Iron was making about his vid was not that he is a better video editor.

With all due respect to Iron, he got those view not because he is the next Scorsese. He got those views because so many people are interested in DCS and actively out there searching for all the content they can find.  It is a proxy indicator suggesting the level of market interest.

That is the main significance in the number of views.  Iron wasn't out there promoting his vid.  Those views found him base on people looking and engaging with DCS content.  It is a indirect  way to measure market interest in the two sims.

There are those who can never see anything but "OR" decisions.  I think they should consider "AND" operations.

I had been trying to interest the 1946 guys in AH.  A fully patched IL2 1946 looks and behaves a lot like AH III.  They could be configured to be very similar.  I was suggesting to them to try out the trial.  Maybe enjoy 1946 for it's extensive SP AND AH for it superior MP.  AH is off it's prime, but even 100 player nights is something 1946 can't achieve.  I'm not suggesting 1946 need to abandon 1946.  They can simply "AND" it with AH.  And Visa Versa.  AH guys might want to explore 1946 for a similar flight experience with extensive SP that AH doesn't have for when AH maps you don't like are up or hoard numbers and gang-banging make you want to log off.

If I suggest AH guys ought to explore the physics of helo flight with DCS because if you are a flightsim enthusiast I think you would find the challenge interesting.  AH doesn't have helo.  Maybe if people want an occasional change of pace they might want to give it a try.  Same with jets, but that isn't my cup of tea.  "AND" not "OR".

As far as skimming goes I'm not sure why certain mentally unstable people think that would be any benefit to me.  What do I care.  Besides if you took every single player here and "skimmed" them over to DCS it would be a tiny fraction of a rounding error on their month sales numbers and that wouldn't benefit me in any way.  I don't own ED stock nor is there any shortage of DCS players. 

Besides I've said time and time again, both publicly on this forum and in private PM where people have contacted me for information that I see no immediate replacement for AH in DCS.  Two different kind of sim, starting from different mindsets and different design goals.  WWII is not current a focus of ED and the current plane-set is a scattered hodgepodge and most importantly I don't think the fundamental design of their server architecture even makes it feasible.  You could make some interesting warbird servers there, but not like AH in scope and scale.  Though superior to AH in graphics and physics and sound with a superior mission editor an scripting ability, IMHO. 

IL2 and Combat Pilot are the closer threats to AH.  DCS is a special fringe product. 

[DmonSlyr]

There are quite a few misconceptions about DCS that I've seen since playing.

1. There are servers like ww2 warbirds arena that once you click on the plane and field, it starts you off with engine running already. All you have to do is turn your guns and gunsite on and you can bascially take off right there. In the Growling Sidewinder arena, all you have to do is set up your RWR and Radar and add the loadout you want and it's ready to go.

2. If you play with some squads. They have training severs and many squad members can help you get up and running pretty quickly and bypass/setup a lot of BS you never realized. I'm very grateful to the Original Damned - Ghost and Ren for their never ending help, servers, and training videos. They got me going in the F18 very quickly and it was easier than I thought.

3. The ww2 is pretty cool although it's not anything like AH in terms of action. There is a lot more that needs to go into it. It's more like how the old H2H use to be. The warbirds has no radar, no one talks much. It's hard to find action and you sorta gotta figure out how it flows. I'm not a big fan of the damage model in terms of hitting planes. The 50s seem like total crap and aiming is much much harder. I'm still having a really hard time picking up planes, they are very tough to see. I'll have a guy merge with me and if I don't follow him the entire time with my eyes, he could totally dissappear with the environment and it takes me a minute to find. Still working on SA with track IR and VR, but it's tough to see planes.

4. You can take off a jet in about 5 minutes from cold start. If already running, it's about 2 minutes. Jet fighting is a lil different with missiles that is for sure. With the Aim120s you don't even see the target you killed most of the time. 1v1 with guns is pretty similar but you have jet engines so that adds to the geometry so it will come with feeling and practice.

The hardest things aren't pressing buttons and taking off. You don't have to fool with engine management that much at all. Just watch a few videos. But really the hardest part for me atleast is the aiming, dealing with the damage model, and  SA losing planes in the terrain.

Thinking about picking up the F-86 next.

[AKIron]

For several decades I've been a fan of multiplayer computer games. I've always wanted the most extreme realism but settled for whatever was available. If a game is simplified then shooting down and getting shot down becomes "old" quicker than an environment closer to reality. Even a sim indistinguishable from reality would get old for me after a while. If it has many aspects that require much effort to learn and master it will keep my interest longer. It's okay with me if your mileage varies.

[AKIron]

Iron wasn't out there promoting his vid.

I started to delete it because I squeal like a little girl. I've deleted others that were getting many views but not flattering to my ego. The older I get, the less I care.