Author Topic: 11 old boy kills robber with a .45 (Read 2591 times)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2002, 01:09:51 PM »

Tahgut, I'm a proponent of stricter gun laws, provided we uphold the current gun laws we have on the books, which we do not. We'd first need to build more prisons, have longer sentences for offenses, which means taxes would go up to house them...which is why most of these levies fail.

Some will say "Make drugs legal and open up potential jail cells"...I say you'd only be opening pandora's box for problems regarding crime. my 2 cents.

Dowding · « **Reply #31 on:** February 18, 2002, 01:34:44 PM »

Toad, all those statistics prove is that London is 90% more of a toejamhole than it was before.

And anyone who has ever been there can tell you it wasn't much good to start with.

I hate the place.

Note you concentrate on London only, which has always attracted the most violent types for many years. Gun crime isn't a new phenomena either. Remember the Krays? They used guns regularly during the 50's and 60's, and Ronnie was convicted of killing George Cornell in 1969; he shot him in the face for calling him a poof if I remember rightly.

In terms of showing any kind of trend as a consequence of the banning of handguns I think it's far too early to tell either way. Small scale influxes of hand-guns, gangland clashes etc can all occur in the space of a couple of years and skew the data. Give it 25 years and perhaps a conclusion would be valid.

On the subject of Northern Ireland and gun related deaths, I should think only a couple of dozen would be added to the stats. Guns are generally used for 'knee-capping' over there these days, although there has been a couple of murders recently.

Dinger · « **Reply #32 on:** February 18, 2002, 01:36:03 PM »

Kid's mother is in jail. Dad died of a heart attack three years before -- no word on father's criminal record or drug use.
Guy knew mother, often came by Grandma's house; grandma would usually let him in. PReviously, he declared his profession on police form as "Drug Dealer".
GUy pulled a knife on Grandma in an attempt to steal firearms.

Pongo · « **Reply #33 on:** February 18, 2002, 01:57:21 PM »

11 year old shoots a robber its news.
11 year old accidentaly shoots his brother its not even news.
Just the high cost of gun luv

capt. apathy · « **Reply #34 on:** February 18, 2002, 02:23:10 PM »

Actually pongo you've got it backward (at least for everywhere I’ve lived)
The media always comes out to cry whenever there is an accidental shooting or when something bad happens with a gun.

They really downplay anything positive involving guns or write it off as a fluke.
Plus most of the time if a gun is involved in stopping a robbery, but is not fired then you would never hear about it.
I know the time I surprised a intruder in my home (I was supposed to be out of town, just the wife and kids at home) he turned and ran when he saw the gun, I didn't fire and I didn't call the police I just locked up and went back to bed, that’s the way it usually happens, the police wont hear about it unless the gun is fired and an explanation is necessary. If you report it there is the hours of waiting up for them to arrive and take the report, plus all the questions (are your guns registered? how many do you own? and in the current anti-gun political climate I’d prefer that it not be documented that I even own guns) all for no purpose other than statistics.

Nashwan · « **Reply #35 on:** February 18, 2002, 02:59:21 PM »

Crime is certainly going up in London, and I also think the British handgun ban has gone too far.
The old British system was you had to have a licence, which you could get if you belonged to a gun club. With a licence, you could buy just about any handgun, as long as it didn't have a burst or automatic fire mode, ie 1 bullet per pull of trigger was ok.
The new British system, brought in after Dunblane, is it's almost impossible to have a handgun (handguns are now classified along with fully automatic weapons)

However, crime in London has got far more to do with a court case involving a murdered black man than the fairly recent all-out handgun ban.

Stephen Lawrence (the aforementioned black man) was murdered by a group of racists in London. The police bungled the investigation, initially treating it as a fight between rival gangs.
His parents brought a private prosecution, which was thrown out for lack of evidence.
There was then a high profile inquiry/witchhunt into the case, which labelled the Met police "institutionally racist" and caused a lot of trouble, with policemen almost afraid to approach young black men in case they recieve a complaint of harrasment.

The result is, street crime in London has soared.
It's not helped by the goverrnment reducing police numbers.

Sorry I got the murder rate figures wrong, it's 6.4 per 100,000 people in the US, 1.4 in England and Wales.
Northern Ireland is relatively peacefull at the moment (it hasn't had a murder rate as high as Washington in the last 30 years) and Scotland is never that bad, so the UK rate as a whole won't be above 1.5
In other words, around 4.5 times higher in the US.

However, that figure is distorted because of domestic murders, which make up around 70% of all murders in the UK.

The chance of being murdered by a stranger in the UK is less than a tenth that of the US, and as I said, only 38 people were murdered during robberies in the UK in 1998, the last year I have seen figures for. (all robberies etc, not just the chance with a gun)

As regards London, the murder rate there is 2.9 per 100,000 people, compared to New York, which is much safer than it was, at 8.6, and Washington, 49.5

CavemanJ · « **Reply #36 on:** February 18, 2002, 03:07:18 PM »

Where, oh where, is Toad with his links to those 2 programs that are working deterring the criminal elements and thier use of firearms.... Gonna have to go searching...

Now where's my flamethrower.....

(warning: Thread HiJack in progress)

SirLion are you really that stupid???

Quote

My point being that concealable pistols give the advantage to perps...I see no purpose in them so ban them!!!

Take guns away from the law abiding citizen and you give the perps the advantage. There have been interviews with gang members where they were asked who thier preferred targets were. They said tourists because they know the tourists don't have a gun. I'm licensed to carry and I do carry. There've been a few instances where having my Colt diffused a situation almost before it started.
FYI there's a town in Georgia called Kennesaw. There's a law in this town that requires each house to keep at least 1 firearm. Granted it's been a few years since I was in that part of the world, but Kennesaw had one of the lowest crime rates for the whole state.
Deterrence.

Rip we've got plenty of laws about guns on the books, we don't need any more clouding things up worse than what they are. What we need is better enforcement of existing laws (and repeal of the "assault weapons ban" because of its broad reaching qualifiers that takes over 170 different models out) and better education for the "unwashed masses" on safety and handling.

I say kudos to this kid. And good aim!

Now, for all you anti-gun Posse Commutatis* types out there, try to get this through your thick, pansy skulls: GUNS DON'T KILL, PEOPLE KILL!
If you need a demonstration of this find a friend who owns a gun and knows how to properly handle them. Farm the kids out to someone for a little while. Have yer friend load it and set it on the table and back up. Then start trying to get that gun to fire WITHOUT touching it. You can yell every obscenity you know or can make up at it til yer blue in the face and it won't do anything.
But....
pick it up, aim it, squeeze the trigger... YOU just put a hole in something.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** February 18, 2002, 03:09:55 PM »

Ironically, if you took "Drug-related homocide" or "Gang-related homocide" stats and threw them out, we'd have a lower incident of homocide than London most likely.

Pongo, its just the opposite in the states, the network news or local news rarely, if at all, reports of guns being used in self-defense. Only when they're mis-used (accidently deaths or gang related murders)do they make the evening news, usually the "Top Story" locally. But if someone shoots an intruder during the night, it gets page 12 of the local newspaper, 1 paragraph.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #38 on:** February 18, 2002, 03:12:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by CavemanJ

Rip we've got plenty of laws about guns on the books, we don't need any more clouding things up worse than what they are. What we need is better enforcement of existing laws (and repeal of the "assault weapons ban" because of its broad reaching qualifiers that takes over 170 different models out) and better education for the "unwashed masses" on safety and handling.

Cave, re-read my post above, thats what I said..enforce the ones we already have, THEN and ONLY THEN would I consider tougher legislation.

Tac · « **Reply #39 on:** February 18, 2002, 03:31:47 PM »

Im just waiting for the news to start claiming the kid played too much QUAKE.

Hint: If he had, the entire room wouldve been fragged

Sox62 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 18, 2002, 03:51:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
Im just waiting for the news to start claiming the kid played too much QUAKE.

Hint: If he had, the entire room wouldve been fragged

He probably also listened closely to heavy metal lyrics.

Thrawn · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2002, 05:37:45 PM »

Caveman, you are totally missing the point.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns.

The stats prove it.

Guns aren't scientient?? Holy crap!! Thanks that info! All along I thought the problem was hand guns went running around randomly blowing people away.

Make all the rationalisations you want. The FACTS remain, more people die in the states because there are more hand guns.

Animal · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2002, 06:21:18 PM »

Since my thread is already jacked, I might as well jack it again.

Interesting fact:

Did you know more people die each year of falling, than of gun accidents? This is specially so wich children. Something like 300% more kids die in falls than gun accidents.

We should outlaw running and climbing.

the_hegemon · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2002, 06:22:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
Im just waiting for the news to start claiming the kid played too much QUAKE.

Hint: If he had, the entire room wouldve been fragged

Nah. He probably played Counter-Strike a lot. And was a little squeak of a sniper that everyone hated

Also - basic science here: Correlation does not indicate causation. Think about that for a while. Look through this thread and what do you see? I see lots of correlation, but zero causation.

That is all, you may continue argueing.

Thrawn · « **Reply #44 on:** February 18, 2002, 06:33:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by the_hegemon
Also - basic science here: Correlation does not indicate causation. Think about that for a while. Look through this thread and what do you see? I see lots of correlation, but zero causation.

That is all, you may continue argueing.

cor·re·la·tion Pronunciation Key (kôr-lshn, kr-)
n.
A causal, complementary, parallel, or reciprocal relationship, especially a structural, functional, or qualitative correspondence between two comparable entities: a correlation between drug abuse and crime.