Yo! What Happened To HT's Vision?

[funked]

Daff, that's pretty good.  Maybe instead of derating an exsisting type, allow EZ mode for only one type of plane.  I.e. enable the Brewster Buffalo with fly-by-wire.

[hblair]

 

The automatic fuel management system and the auto-takeoff feature won't let someone who has blown all his E in a stupid move recover almost instantaneously and zoom up to kill whomever he is fighting.

What will let someone do that??

Certainly not the easymode I knew in WB's.

When I flew the ACA I had to fly easymode, while the plane wouldn't go into a full blown spin, it sure did wallow and hang there long enough for any FR pilot worth a sh*t to nail you good.

I think you guys are tripping out on all these supposed advantages easymode pilots had in WB's. The only 'advantage' I could see is not having to trim your plane.

If HTC wants to mix easymode with Full Realism in the Main Arena, whoopty sh*t, I couldn't care less.  

HTC knows what they're doing guys.  

[RAM]

Pyro,nice and clear post.

I want to repeat this. I'm not against EZmode, but in some ways of implementing it. I full understand that you need to grow as a company, and to make your customer's base bigger than it is right now.

I dont doubt about your skill in introducing EZmode here, I only wanted to make clear that if one particular way that I dont like is adopted, then I'll have to see if it is owrth my money. And IMHO, the described EZmode in Wb, mixed in a MA is not worth my money.

THis is not an attack against you, nor HT, nor HTC. If I have to go I'll do without anger, I understand that some decisions are to be made in YOUR interest, not in mine, or in anyone's. You are the guys living from the money you earn here. So your right, you will do what YOU think is best for HTC. And I deeply agree with it.

I'm not complaining here, not from my point of view. As I told HT before if I am so worried is because this damned ( ) simulator has hooked me, and I like it, I like the community and the men and women behind the company that created this wonder. And I'd hate to have to leave. But being as I am a guy with few resources I'm not able to stay if I cant have the fun I want because some feature is pissing me off.

Again, I may have stated my points too strongly. Never intended to offend you, HTC. If I did, I am sorry. But my point is made and my opinions there.

Thanks for your time.

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-29-2000).]

[jedi]

Here's one for free:

Create an "Academy Arena."  ALL new players must complete "academy training" BEFORE they can enter the main arena.  Provide suitable fanfare, T-shirts, whatever for graduating.  Graduation depends on passing a series of "checkrides" administered by the trainers.  As you pass each checkride, you lose some of your EZ mode benefits, and get closer to being able to enter the Main Arena.  At a certain point, you have only, say, two EZ mode features left enabled, and can fly in the Main Arena if you wish, but only in "basic" fighters like the earlier Spit or 109.  Trainers are on duty for training and checkrides at certain times, but for the rest of the time, the Academy Arena is just like the Main Arena, only with all the players having various levels of EZ mode enabled.  The last phase of the Academy would be advanced ACM, designed to maximize your chances in the Main.  If you pass those lessons, you graduate, and lose your EZ mode privileges, but have full access to all the Main Arena planes in the Main.  If you choose not to take the checkrides, you stay in the Academy Arena, which presumably has lots of other guys in it to fight with, the same plane set, the same maps, "beginners' scenarios" and only a relaxed flight model to deal with.

Heresy, I know.  Dogs and cats living together and all that.  Keep the two arenas separate (the horror!) and force the new guys to actually learn to survive a bit BEFORE they can CHOOSE the tougher arena (the double horror!) but provide an entry-level arena that's both fun and challenging and rewarding at the same time (impossible!)  

Has the added advantage that none of the guys in the Main are pissed off about EZ mode, and might even be enticed to help out with the Academy Arena, which would undoubtedly require large numbers of "Basic Training IPs."  Of course, one would have to assume that some level of harmony and cooperation was actually a goal, rather than defensiveness and bunker mentality    To each his own I guess...

[Nashwan]

As someone who's just tried AH for the first time, (and who'll syubscribe as soon as he gets a good net connection), I'd like to throw in my observations.
I have only ever flown 1 sim online, EAW. I found the transition to AH quite difficult, but not terribly so. I hoped to get a K/D of 1, I got as high as .9 and ended a bit lower.
The things I found most difficult were the skill of the existing pilots (not much you can do about that), and the early onset of blackout, which I think could be safely turned up for everyone.
I would not have flown easy mode if it had been offered, and I wouldn't want to fly in an arena where some pilots had different laws of physics. I wouldn't object, however, to giving new pilots some advantages, to be removed automatically when they reached a number of kills.
Remove range icons for everyone but newbies. Give new pilots auto trim. (trimming is difficult to get used to). But the best thing for new pilots would be to include offline aircraft for them to practice against.
It's difficult to practice offline when you have nothing to fly against. It's also not that much fun. People want to fight staight away. Give them something to practice against and a clear page of instructions on the download page before they begin and the newcomers will do better in their first experiences of AH online, and they will be more likely to sign up.

[0005]

I can only say, I completely agree with Pyro here. I'm in different line of real-time coding business but same setup, been in it forever same as them, went through 3-4 companies doing stuff and seen excellent code being ruined by stupid business decisions and crappy stuff making it big based on smart marketing & yielding to market pressure.

Trust their experience and dedication and just wait what comes down the line. Respectfully brought up opinions about the thing then will make them change the stuff since they know it's their business.

Too busy for last 3-4 months but hope to get flying the sim again, and of course full-realism and of course I suck ;-)

I really like the "you would feel awkward if you knew how much it took to get there". Once one did it, one knows that being top ace in this sim is trivial compared to what it means to make the guts of the thing work.

[easymo]

 I did,nt go into the WB main much. And then I flew FR most of the time when I did (I could get all the RR i wanted in the ACA. The few times I did try RR against FR. I found it to be like flying a 1c here. Easy to get kills. Hard to get home.

[Kats]

Holy smokes!
I don't know what the big deal is here. Anyone who knows *me* knows I'm pretty much hard core as you get.

But this is a non issue. You *have* to have ez mode. You also *have* to have it implemented so that there is a reward for flying full realism or a penalty for flying ez mode. But isn't that obvious?

Personally I would just make it auto trim, stiffen up the landing gear and put a G-Limiter on board. That should do it.

[Beegerite]

The Honeymoon's over, that's all that's wrong here.  We've seen each other naked and heard what goes on in the bathroom.  Now we've got to learn to live with each other in spite of that.
 
This is all a matter of perception, when I came in here I compared AH to my former flight sim and seeing the difference became more than willing to pay 3X as much.  My love at first sight infatuation was bolstered by reading something into their mission statement which the writter perceived differently.  I perceived AH to be a sim without compromise to any commercial considerations and assumed that's why they would charge 3x as much as my old one.  Undoubtedly they thought that way but perhaps some hard core realities have hit as mentioned by Pyro in another post where he said that dot com companies had to become viable as soon as possible.  This tells me that perhaps there are some investors putting on the pressure to get more paying  bodies (does anyone know how many actual paying customers are in the arenas vs. people on 2 week passes?) in the door and the only way to do that is not to only meet the needs of hard core realism addicts but the masses as well.  No problem, I can understand that.  

Bottom line, there is nothing that anyone of us can say or suggest which will change the course of their decision making process unless somebody has a HTC stock certificate in their portfolio.

Only thing that counts is a polite opinion which they will hopefully tally up before they do something which would run against any particular customer's interests.  

Personally I will reserve final judgement until I see how it affects me.  I'm not against compromise and fully respect HTC's right to make business decisions in their own best interests as I do.

For accounting purposes these are my wishes;

1. No mixed EZ and Hard arenas as this would cause suspicion and controversy.
2. Continue working to bring more rather than less realism into AH.
3. To bring in masses of bodies offer the same pricing structure as a competitor that has a lot of people online e.g. $9.95/month flat.  (Considering to superior quality of AH this should bring 'em in droves and undoubtedly make those already here very happy indeed.

Love AH
Beeg


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[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-29-2000).]

[Nash]

"Newbies need help so they can fly and score occasional kill." - Jochen

Well no.. they don't. I didn't. Most folks I know around here helped themselves. Took a long time to climb the ladder perhaps, but they had the initiative and interest to do it.

Flammable stuff - I know...but here goes...

When we speculate on the influx of new customers which would only happen with the implemenation of EZ mode, we are indeed talking about a *type* of person. Most of us got our butts handed to us for months and months - this person won't have any part of that. Most of us spent a great deal of time learning the FMs; trim for example. This person can't be bothered. Obviously there are exceptions, but the truth of these satements is borne out of the fact that the only way to increase the customer base is to decrease the level of dificulty. They will not come/stay unless it's made easy.

Now - I want HTC to stay afloat. That means I want them to do *any* damn thing they want if they feel it makes sense for them. After reading these posts I've changed my mind quite a bit on it. I think there *are* ways to successfully bring EZ mode here, even mixed. And to be honest, I aint really that worried about this stuff.

I do though shudder when thinking of the types of people that this will attract. I will have a serious problem with the mentality that killin' me is a god-given right and FM along with earned skill be damned. "I want it easy, and I want it now". I can just imagine the clutter on the open channel when these folks start showing up.

[Kutt]

I’ve been into computers for the past 20 years. I became interested in computers because I could fly an airplane (Flight Simulator on a C64). I make my living with computers now, and it takes up a good majority of my recreational time as well (My wife could expound on this for hours  ). I have “branched out” into other game genres over the years. The point being, I hear a lot of discussion about Relaxed Realism as if it was the only solution to getting more new blood in some people’s mind. I think the key to games that I have enjoyed over the years have been a worthy long-term goal that had many enjoyable milestones along the way. So these are some of my ideas on adding some interesting milestones along the path to becoming an aeronautical god  .

This sims strength are the skill required to fly it, community, and to a lesser extent the strategic capturing fields. The purpose of the game, to me, seems to be a quest for ACM skill. There are other things that players can do, I know, but in general we use “kills” to mark our progress in obtaining this skill. This is not bad, but I think that with a little more effort and imagination we could do so much more. So here we go if you’re not bored outta your skull yet…

I think that we need to put more milestones to mark a pilot’s progress. I think that we should institute rank into the game. This would be an easy way to mark your progress as a pilot.

Cadet – This would be your 2 week trial period. There should be an offline check ride that teaches you how to navigate an aircraft from A to B, “kill” a target using cannons, MG’s, bombs and rockets, and use your view keys. A lot of time seems to be spent by the trainers teaching the very basics on how the sim works to newbies. If this can be automated, the trainers would have more time to teach the basics of survival in the MA. I also think there should be relaxed realism for Cadets. I don’t believe there should be a different physics model, just automate as many things as possible for the Cadet (Auto Trim, unlimited ammo, unlimited  fuel, a relaxed stall model, ability to take more damage). I don’t want UFO’s, but I would have no problem with a very forgiving aircraft that reduces the learning curve as well as reinforces good ACM technique. There could also be a specific aircraft designated as a trainer (an overmodeled Texan with guns might be cool). Granted it may not be historically accurate, but it would let everyone fighting it know that a cadet is at the controls and the people that prefer not to engage aircraft flying with relaxed realism can avoid them.

O1 – You would become a “commissioned officer” when you begin paying for your account. Your goal as an ensign would be to become fully qualified in your “Texan”. Each few kills another relaxed realism setting would turn off until you became a qualified pilot. Once qualified any plane in the set would be made available to you.

O2 to O5 – The lower ranks could use a kill count as a path for advancement. As you moved higher in the ranks obtaining kills with different aircraft, bombing, and C-47 flying would help your advancement..

O6 to O8 – Advancing through these ranks would be accomplished by planning and leading missions. Encouraging veteran pilot’s to organize the fighting for their country.

O9 to O10 – Advancing through these ranks would be accomplished by the successes of other pilots. These pilots would have to take others "under their wing". These would be the ambassadors of the community. These are the types of pilots that would be squad leaders and trainers.

I think that this system would give players a little more focus and purpose to their flying. I think that these ranks should be self paced, but demanding. The Pilot Rankings already provide competition for those that desire it. I think that these would provide additional and worth while goals for the average pilot, and still keep the community together in one arena. I personally believe this is absolutely vital until our numbers increase sufficiently to allow for multiple arenas. I think giving the newbie a smaller chunk of the pie when they first start off, as well as some early successes would help the community in the long run. In addition, if none of this appealed to you there would be nothing forcing you to participate once you reached the O-2 level.

[Minotaur]

I think alot of you guys must have missed this from another thread.  Excuse Pyro...

 

By Pyro
I don't normally like to talk about WB, but since recent changes are bleeding over and having an affect on our future direction, I'd like to elaborate on a few things.
Having easy mode enabled in the main arena has been in WB since 1.11. This idea was first suggested by Trips. I recoiled from it at first but then it made sense. Trips and I ran a lot of tests to see if this would confer an advantage to an experienced player and found that that was not the case. While it would help the inexperienced player, it would actually handicap the experienced player. A great idea, and it was implemented. It's been that way for the past 3 years or so. It didn't detriment WB, it didn't make people leave.

This idea came on the heels of our inability to successfully seed an easy arena. While we could get plenty of players when we gave it away for free, we just couldn't compete at $2 per hour vs the $10 per month that the competition was offering.

We kept close tabs on numbers. We watched things like how many users we had using PCs or Macs and how many were using easy mode vs regular. We watched account growth and arena usage on a weekly basis. It wasn't speculative on our part.

We're in this business for the same reason as any other business- to make money. If that wasn't our goal, this would be a hobby not a business. But this is a very tough business. Some of our competitors are backed by multi-billion dollar corporations that don't need an immediate profit, some are depending on dot-com investors which are drying up quickly, and some have to become viable soon. We are the latter.

IEN is in a difficult position. They aren't cash rich and they're not in the black. They cannot afford to take hits to their revenue stream but that is exactly what they did when they moved a bunch of paying customers off to non-paying areas.

Despite their "record" revenue claim from online games, their quarterly report shows a loss in this area from a year ago. This is despite all the players playing Figher Ops on AOL that are allegedly adding to WB development. Frankly, it befuddles me how a representative of a publicly traded company could make any claims to earnings, much less false ones. Those things come out in press releases and quarterly reports. If I were an investor in Ien, I'd be finding an attorney to file a class action lawsuit.

So in the 3 years or so that easy mode has been available in the WB main, it only now has become a real problem due to internal reasons which has just cost a cash starved company a lot of money.

Where we stand is no different now than it was before. We're not going to implement something that gives an experienced player an advantage. If it gives an inexperienced player an added advantage due to his lack of experience, well that's the point. But while the easy mode in WB was cited as being theoretically advatageous in certain situations, I knew of no decent pilot who wouldn't be at a disadvantage using it. While it made some things easier, it handicapped an experienced player more. This handicap really didn't make a difference to the new player because he didn't have the skill to utilize it anyway and that was the point.

While I don't yet know what we will do, our viewpoint on this is no different than it was several years ago. It comes down to what will work for us.


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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

I think some gyro's have overevved.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Minotaur]

And the Pyro's further rebuttal...

 

By Pyro

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I see people getting bent over something that they're not even familiar with. We don't yet have an easy mode, we don't yet know exactly how we're going to implement one, and we don't yet know if we'll be able to mix it or not. However, we do fully understand the issues involved.
In the end, my preference would be for an easy mode that can be mixed and kept fair, but with a separate arena. The reason for this is because it gives new players an easier arena to play in without having to fall victim to all the hardened vets, and yet not divide the game completely so that things like special events have to be tailored to one group or another. But bringing up another arena is a lot more involved than just starting one up. You have to have the people to seed it with.


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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

Am I still missing something?

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Nash]

Hehe Mino. I think everyone's read those. Whatcha gettin' at?  

[Pongo]

I think I smell hypocrites in the woods.
When I started buffs didnt have guns..which make shooting them down a little easier

When I started there was unlimited wep which somewhat allievates the stall problem.

When I started there was no riping your wings off in a dive(you figure it out)

When I started the number of planes that could kill you at 1.1 was 2 shorter then it is now.

When I started they were constinly adding new MAJOR new features that everyone had to figure out together and that leveled the playing field alot.

When I started there where only 4 planes or so and it was much eiser to know what the capabilities of the bad guys were.

When I started there was alot less triming required and the planes flew quite abit more alike then they do know.

When I started there was no black out(or it was different)

Was there compression...NO
Nap of the earth and goon driving shure were easy on the old map...
Those are the major ones.

SOUNDS ALLMOST LIKE A KIND OF EASY MODE.

Give people a break.
Almost none of us have the experiance of being droped into this arena and told to swim.Slowly learning the game as it evolved was an incredadable advantage.
SHARE THE WEALTH


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"Stupids are like flies. they are everywere, but are easy to kill"
RAM