"They raped everyone from eight to 80"

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by --am--

I can remind you, Finns, that your state exists on a card only due to Russia. That at first you were a province of the Swedish empire where you did not have any rights.

I suppose this sums up your knowledge in history pretty well...

First, Sweden has never been an empire, we have always been a kingdom.
Second, Finland was an integrated part of Sweden, not a province, not any occupied territory, just a part of Sweden the same way Svealand or Gotland is a part of Sweden right now.

[--am--]

Officially Sweden was not empire. But on an image of action aspired to her to become. Its wars specify capture of territories on it.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The well-meaning and peaceful USSR chose to graciously attack our country (it was all in our best interest naturally) and in the end finland actually had more land than it originally did (the message he is trying to give us here..)

Original state borders:


Borders after first soviet attack and end of winter war:



Borders after continuation war and peace agreement:



If USSR's intention was only to protect St.Petersburg, it launched a pretty big attack. We all know that the orders were to march to Helsinki in 2 weeks in 1939..

[fd ski]

War crimes?
How about soviet invasion to finland in 1939?
Without that, there wouldn't be a single war crime commited by finns, which is far far less than war crimes by soviet.

How about that German attack on russia in 41? If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be a single german woman raped !!!




Let's stop this stupid threat now.

[--am--]

USSR has offered to the Finnish government to remove border on the Karelian isthmus on north up to a line Lilipola-Koivisto. In exchange for this territory a component 2761 km2. government USSR has offered to Finland 5529 km2 in Kareliya in areas Rebol and Porososer

I can still remind, that Finland has broken the contract about Aland of islands from 1921. Finland has constructed there military bases and strengthenings having broken thus contract, which she has signed.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

--am-- they were not offers but demands. That is why your country started the war, not ours.

Have you ever heard of a country that freewillingly gave away its land after the neighbour demanded it? Not to mention the land was valuable timberland and the area offered in exchange was mostly worthless swamp.

You can't change the history --am-- even if you would like to.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by fd ski
Let's stop this stupid threat now.

Excuse me, but since I was the one starting this thread allow me to ask you why you feel this thread is stupid?

[--am--]

You badly know a history of Finland. The negotiation on an exchange of territories (and behind capture) is normal international practice. The negotiation on it went in the summer of 1938. Unfortunately Finnish politics did not want the world, and the wars wanted. USSR offered except for an exchange of territories also the mutually advantageous trade agreement, delivery of arms for the Finnish army, to close eyes on infringement of the contract about Aland islands.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Oh thats why your (now ex) president Boris Jeltsin stated that Stalin's attack on finland was a crime - publicly.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by --am--
I can still remind, that Finland has broken the contract about Aland of islands from 1921. Finland has constructed there military bases and strengthenings having broken thus contract, which she has signed.

Now how the diddly did that get into this discussion? Not only are you incredibly wrong, I fail to see what relevance this has got to do with anything.

Full story:
In 1856 Russia entered into a treaty obligation not to fortify the Aland Islands in the Baltic; these islands lie near Stockholm, but Sweden was not part of the treaty. In 1918 the Islands became part of Finland which started fortifying them. Sweden, feeling (for some unknown reason) threatened by these fortifications, complained to the Council of the League of Nations. The end result was that the LoN found that Finland had succeeded to Russias obligations and that Sweden could claim the benefit of the 1856 treaty.

Learn some history pal.

[--am--]

Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Oh thats why your (now ex) president Boris Jeltsin stated that Stalin's attack on finland was a crime - publicly.

It is politics. They will tell any nonsense if it will bring by him political benefit

[--am--]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Full story:
In 1856 Russia entered into a treaty obligation not to fortify the Aland Islands in the Baltic; these islands lie near Stockholm, but Learn some history pal.

You deny that fact, what England, Germany, Finland and other European countries have signed October 21 1921 Conventions about de-military and neutralization Aland of islands?


Aland of an island under the peace contract of 1809 send to Russia

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by --am--



You deny that fact, what England, Germany, Finland and other European countries have signed October 21 1921 Conventions about de-military and neutralization Aland of islands?


Aland of an island under the peace contract of 1809 send to Russia
 

*sigh*

Notice the date of that de-militarization agreement? Now if Finland began fortifying the Islands in 1918-1919 and then stopped...would that be before or after the agreement?

And yes, Russia got Aland from Sweden in 1809, then Finland got Aland from Russia in 1918. Is there a point in here somewhere?

[--am--]

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/FIN_1956_Act.pdf

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Oh, so now your presidents word is nonsense when it doesn't happen to match with your opinnion?

I'd say that's the official stand of your government and you can think whatever you want in your pre-revolution stuck up state of mind.

If the communist society was so great, why on earth was there a revolution in the USSR which lead to its end??

I'm just about finished with this subject.