Author Topic: D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA  (Read 3461 times)

Offline Dead Man Flying

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2001, 01:55:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak:
I get that uneasy feeling when I see:
P-51s
Fw190s
Spits
Above me.

I also get that feeling when I see an La-7 anywhere.

I get that uneasy feeling too -- boredom.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline AKDejaVu

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2001, 02:18:00 PM »
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The result were 12 enemies shotdown (including the "invincible" one), our nikki shot down by field ack and one of our A8 with engine killed by a single long range ping of the ack.

How many of the planes shot down were spitfires?

12 planes shot down by 3.... and you're arguing that 1 plane would have made a huge difference if it had been a spit instead of a 190?  How much of a difference do you think it would have made if it had been a different pilot in the 190?

AKDejaVu

Offline MANDOBLE

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2001, 04:08:00 PM »
Karnak, when I talk about Spit or D9 I talk about them in our MA, not in a 1944 theatre. Germans and Americans designed adecuate planes for their purposes: intercept buffs/ protect buffs. The main target for the germans where to kill these buffs and to protect the main attack aircrafts (190A8). In the case of americans, the target was to protect the buffs along all the way to his target. Also, neither americans nor germans had inflight radar nor range icons preventing them from being attacked by surprise using real boom&Zoom tactics. Really different missions and really different environment than our MA. In the other hand, the CT is a very different place where Boom&Zoom planes shine over TurnnBurn ones.

Why I fly german iron instead N1KJ, Zeke or Spit? Well, I simply have no interest into them, I dont like the turn'til puke fighting way. Why I fly mainly 190 instead 109, being 109 much more adecuate for our MA? Why to fly 190 instead P51/P47? Basically because, IMO, 190 is more challenging, more interesting. It has nothing to do with a byasing about the nationality of each plane.

AKDejaVu, the 12 victories where achieved in four assaults to A22, go-rearm-go. In one of these incursions there was a hi 190 unable to protect his lower mates. What I said is that a hi spit would had been more effective deffending them than the 190. The pilot of that 190 followed the B&Z rules, trying to keep safe all the time. And he was success at this until he decides to enter in close fight. While he was using B&Z we knew all the time where he was, his range and relative speed. We simply keep much slower than him sending check six each time he dives and negating with no effort at all a firing solution. In the meanwhile his mates were being shot down one by one.
Basically he did well for some minutes, then realized that he must risk his alt and speed to have a chance to fire at us, and he did. At this point he was vulnerable to two of us while trying to track the third A8. When the nikki arrived he was low and not very fast and was easily HOed by the nikki, end of story. Probably a more agressive 190 pilot would have dead much earlier. In the other hand, a single spit with E advantage could manage to defend itself from 3 A8 in a much more agressive way, forcing all of us to engange him instead targeting and killing the lower cons.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: MANDOBLE ]

Offline Karnak

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2001, 04:34:00 PM »
MANDOBLE,

I fly all the aircraft in AH, and so far as I can tell, you haven't the foggiest idea of what balance is.

The tactics that were used by the P-51s and Fw190D-9s in WWII against fighters work fine for me in AH.  Based on your K/D ratio they seem to work fine for you too.  I don't know what you have against Spitfires, but you have made some truly moronic statements while arguing your position.  You argue that the Spit is better than the D-9 because it turns better and completely dismiss the D-9's advantages of speed, climb, range and ammo endurance.

I like Spits.  In AH I sometimes fly them, but if my life were really on the line and I had the choice of the non-perk aircraft in AH, you couldn't get me in a Spit or N1K2-J for any amount of money.  My choices would be between the Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, P-51B and P-51D.
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Offline AKDejaVu

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2001, 04:46:00 PM »
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In one of these incursions there was a hi 190 unable to protect his lower mates. What I said is that a hi spit would had been more effective deffending them than the 190.

Ah... then you are just making a completely baseless generalisation.  Nevermind... troll away.

AKDejaVu

Offline Hristo

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« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2001, 04:49:00 PM »
Funny, I like this approach more: when I fly a plane, I better don't see enemies flying it. How could I otherwise exploit differences and annoy the enemy ?  ;).

Perk 190s and keep them perked. Don't perk the Spitter. So fun killing them.

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2001, 04:51:00 PM »
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...but if my life were really on the line and I had the choice of the non-perk aircraft in AH, you couldn't get me in a Spit or N1K2-J for any amount of money. My choices would be between the Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, P-51B and P-51D.
 

Truer words were never spoken. This is the cream of the non-perk crop.

Offline thrila

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« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2001, 05:14:00 PM »
Ok time for my first post

This tour so far in my SpitV i have 4 kills of the fw190D for 0 deaths.


Mandoble isn't going far enough, my stats show that the SpitV must be perked!!!  :rolleyes:
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
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F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline MANDOBLE

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2001, 05:32:00 PM »
You argue that the Spit is better than the D-9 because it turns better
Really? This is really a morronic statement.
Then I argue than C202 is better than D9 cause it turns better also, right?

and completely dismiss the D-9's advantages of speed, climb, range and ammo endurance.
D9 speed advantage is only present at level flight and below 25k. Diving is initially won by spit, substained climb, at most alts is won by the spit. Zoom climb is largely won by the spit. Range is similar. The Spit also keeps its E far better than D9 while mauvering. Spit accelerates faster from lo speeds.
Ammo endurance? Did you forget Spit has TWO hispanos while D9 has 151/20? 700 yards one ping kill vs 250 yards solid burst kills is an enormous difference. Add the fact that pointing the nose towards the target is much more easy in the spit.


AKDejaVu, no matter whitch words I use, no matter the language, you simply dont want to understand what I mean.

So, you guys are sure than 10 spits flying at 20k will be easilly erased by 10 Doras flying at same alt, right? I bet for the spit group.

Offline Kieran

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2001, 05:58:00 PM »
No. I maintain that 10 Spits flying at 20K will have to watch what the 10 190D-9's at 20K decide to do. If the D-9's decide to fight- great! If they decide to grab alt and make passes it will be a long day for the Spits.

Send 4 of the D-9's into the Spits, the other 6 punch WEP and climb a bit. Now the Spits can't run, and they have to constantly turn to avoid getting smacked by the high 190's. If a 190 gets in trouble a spiral dive and run is all that is needed to escape.

Conclusion: 190D-9's determines the beginning and end of fight.

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2001, 06:25:00 PM »
Spit isn't better than the D-9... and the D-9 isn't better than the Spit.  It is extremely difficult to kill a GOOD Spitfire pilot when you are in a 190 or a 109.  He can just turn constantly and you will never get a shot on him.  

On the other hand, it is impossible to kill a good pilot in a 109 or a 190 if you are in a Spitfire.  Not even good, just competent enough to know that he is outmatched in a fight, and he can run away from you.  

I'd say a 1v1 fight between a Dora and a Spit would basically be a draw, until the Spit ran out of fuel.  At that point the Dora could probably kill it pretty easily.  Saying that the Dora holds all the cards in a fight isn't really true, because once it actually gets to the fight, the Spitfire iss at an advantage.  What the Dora does hold is the means to start and end the fight.

Offline Kieran

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2001, 06:36:00 PM »
Urchin-

Fair assessment; however if I'm betting the house, please give me the hand dealt to the LW player, please.  ;)

Offline Sky Viper

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2001, 07:41:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
<S> Very well resumed Kieran.
It is very simple. What is more important in our MA? Kills per time or kills per death? We have an unlimited plane generator, so deaths are not as critical as delay between kills.
A typical example:
Pilot A - 100 flight hours, KD 6/1, 150 kills
Pilot B - 100 flight hours, KD 2/1, 500 kills

Pilot A personal score will be better, ok, but whitch one has had the biggest impact in the arena? Obviously, pilot B.

I think you're both clouding one VERY important piece of the "What matters" equation.  Fun.
Fun = having the best score?
or
Fun = getting the most kills?
or
Fun = flying around chatting for 2 hours and running out of gas over....no kills, but good conversation about nothing?
or
Fun = Finding someone who has chosen to voice an oppinion and give him/her an award for whining?
or
Fun = Creating a terrain that people like to fly over?
or...or...or...  Get my point?

What matters in your Spit vs. Dora discussion is not the plane.  Hell, it's seldom the plane that wins or loses. It's ALL about pilot ability (provided the connections are good).
I've killed a good many Spits with a Dora and a good many Doras with a Spit.
I've vulched (and vulched well) with Dora, and I've BnZ'd with a spit.

The argument you guys are trying to make is a classic black and white argument and you are missing the colors.  :)
When you learn this, you will be able to turn fight a Dora and Boom & Zoom in a Spit.

Viper

Offline Sky Viper

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2001, 07:44:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sky Viper:


I think you're both clouding one VERY important piece of the "What matters" equation.  Fun.
Fun = having the best score?
or
Fun = getting the most kills?
or
Fun = flying around chatting for 2 hours and running out of gas over....no kills, but good conversation about nothing?
or
Fun = Finding someone who has chosen to voice an oppinion and give him/her an award for whining?
or
Fun = Creating a terrain that people like to fly over?
or...or...or...  Get my point?

Viper

Oops...forgot:
Fun = Finding the best sheep.  :D
Viper

Offline Nath[BDP]

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D9 invincivility / eficiency in MA
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2001, 10:12:00 PM »
Looks like some people need some regulating. ;)

On a side note, I don't play DAoC for leveling, I play for pvp--unfortunatly the former is paramount to excell in the latter.
 www.theregulators.org  http://www.camelotherald.com/realms/Merlin/

Just a little peek into what 'ol Nath has been up to. Owning as usual. ;)
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