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Author Topic: sort it out  (Read 2688 times)

Offline koala

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« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2002, 03:33:43 PM »
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Yeah, back to the history books Udie, why dont you count how many times the US has saved or protected Sweden.


Is this the same Sweden that declared neutrality in WW2?

Or is this the one that stood up to Hitler and put its men into harm's way?

Oh wait, sorry, I remember now.  It's the first one.
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Offline Dnil

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« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2002, 03:35:22 PM »
If Sweden fell off the planet, would the world even notice?  Sure no more meatballs or Volvo's but hey I like Italian versions better anyway.


What has Sweden given anyone?  Other then weapons to fight wars?  Nice to sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else get involved.
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Offline Udie

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« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2002, 03:37:22 PM »
You know hor,  I could waste another hour of my day responding to this.  But you are an amazinhunk and I think I'll waste my time working rather than talking to some jerk.

 I'll just leave it at this.  You don't like the USA being all powerful?  Fine get up off your bellybutton and change it.  Until then shut up because what you think don't mean toejam, even if it smells like it...
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Offline Udie

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« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2002, 03:38:37 PM »
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I gotta agree with Hortland on one point.  Udie, it is painful watching you try and debate something.  You are all over the place and are not very concise with your points.  I make is very hard to understand what you are trying to say




 that's because I'm pissed off at hort....
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Offline Udie

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« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2002, 03:39:30 PM »
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Originally posted by Dnil
If Sweden fell off the planet, would the world even notice?  Sure no more meatballs or Volvo's but hey I like Italian versions better anyway.


What has Sweden given anyone?  Other then weapons to fight wars?  Nice to sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else get involved.



 See thrawn Dnil understood my ramblings :D
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Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2002, 03:41:01 PM »
Attempting civility..... so back off!! ;)

The USA's refusal to join the World Court stems not from recent history, but from our roots. We started out as a breakaway republic from European colonization, and those feelings of freedom and "never again" still run pretty strong here. We set a policy very early in our existance of fighting any control by foreign powers. The war of 1812 was started for this very reason, and believe me, in 1812 fighting a war with England was pretty foolhardy. (even though we won Thrawn ;) )

The Monroe Doctrine extended this policy to our entire hemisphere. We failed to join the League of Nations (an American's Idea) because of this. We have never been very trusting souls about sovereignty. Now maybe this is passe', and maybe we are just wrong, but I will guarantee the US will never abdicate sovereignty over ourselves to anyone ever.
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Offline Udie

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« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2002, 03:49:54 PM »
nevermind.....
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Offline RRAM

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« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2002, 04:04:52 PM »
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Originally posted by Udie


 WHEW now that is refreshing :)  Thanks for posting this.  After a quick read I don't see anything that I would contradict in your post RAM :)  You are right about TODAY's world.  One thing to remember about our world today is that there are a LOT of people/countries out there that HATE the USA and what we stand for.  They will use any tool at their disposal to get at us and hurt us.  This would be a HUGE tool for them that IMO we can not let them have.  Remember not one month after 9/11 the USA was voted off the UN human rights commitee and SYRIA was voted on in our place.  That right there tells me all I need to know.



Hummmm well, as far as I can say, the international court will have power over international issues as Crimes against the humanity, international terrorism, international criminal organizations, etc.

Not over internal issues, which will still be treated by each nation by itself. I don't see, either, where is sovereignty abdicated in this thing. Its HIGHLY unlikely that any kind of genocide ,crime against the humanity ,etc, will happen in the USA, so in fact you're not giving up anything at all in that sense.

 I simply can't see the reason of the dispute here. With this international court there would be no arguing at all about human rights, US treatment of al-qaeda prisoners, etc...in fact I'd say it would be better for the international image of USA.

But that's just me :)


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Like I said earlier, this may be arrogant and I'm sorry if it is, adopt our constitution and laws and maybe we can talk about this international court.  As it stands now it's no good from our (USA) viewpoint.   Why should we be forced to agree to something we disagree with?  Where's the democracy in that?



Udie, the US constitution has little to do with this AFAIK, as the laws of any of our countries. We're talking about an INTERNATIONAL jury which is intended to deal with INTERNATIONAL crimes...at least that is the way I understand it. Maybe I'm wrong, tho.

so you'll keep on judging your people in your country, we do judge our people in ours, etc...

the only instance of people sent to this new court would be someone who's commited crimes against the humanity or who's part of an international terrorist organization...which as far as concerns me SHOULD be trialled by an international court anyway.


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and for the record I'm sorry about Franco......



Past things belong to the past. Only a stupid would have a real problem with US supporting Franco 27 years ago. I got some family lost to franquism, but that is past, and today's USA is different from that USA, as today's Spain is different from that Spain :).
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Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2002, 04:06:57 PM »
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Originally posted by koala


Is this the same Sweden that declared neutrality in WW2?

Or is this the one that stood up to Hitler and put its men into harm's way?

Oh wait, sorry, I remember now.  It's the first one.


No, actually its worse than that. It is more like
"Sweden who almost joined the war on the German side in 1941, and who let German troops move through Sweden, and who sold Iron ore to Germany all through the war"
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Offline Udie

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« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2002, 04:08:29 PM »
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Originally posted by Hortlund


No, actually its worse than that. It is more like
"Sweden who almost joined the war on the German side in 1941, and who let German troops move through Sweden, and who sold Iron ore to Germany all through the war"





 and who bought gold fillings that the Nazi's pulled from the mouths of dead Jews?  Same Sweden right?


that's what I though......


yeah America is bad.... :rolleyes:
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2002, 04:09:50 PM »
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Originally posted by Udie




 that's because I'm pissed off at hort....



Understood.



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Originally posted by midnight Target


(even though we won Thrawn  )



Curses!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2002, 04:12:58 PM by Thrawn »
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Offline RRAM

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« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2002, 04:12:55 PM »
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Originally posted by Udie





 and who bought gold fillings that the Nazi's pulled from the mouths of dead Jews?  Same Sweden right?


that's what I though......





Nope, Udie, that was Switzerland ,not sweden...

and even when they knew it was gold coming from the plunder carried against the Jews, I really doubt they did knew about the Nazi concentration and extermination camps...so about the gold pulled from the Jews' teeths...well, I wouldn't say that.
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Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2002, 04:14:04 PM »
Hmmm, was that Americans that killed of the Native Americans? ... or was it English, French, Spanish etc?

Be careful about what you through around glasses ;)


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Originally posted by Glasses
Hey Udie read your history books. Whatever happened to the Native Americans. The whole history of the Western US was formed on Genocide.

Also, 11 Million German civilians died thanks to the bombing raids of the Allies  during WW2. Though it is understandable,not excusable, mind you, why it happened of course there were no PGMs back then like we have now so they had to resort to area bombing to reduce the war making potential of the nation.
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Offline Dnil

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« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2002, 04:14:31 PM »
The problem is who determines its a crime against humanity.  Say the Judges just happen to not like the USA this week and decide that the accident in afghanistan was a crime.  So they try to pick up the crew and put them on trial.  


Thats the problem for the US.  now maybe the euros are used to people running through their country every once and awhile and its no big deal.  but it is here.  Having some Judges rule over US citizens with no US say so a big NO-NO.  Kinda like no taxation without representation.
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Offline funkedup

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« Reply #74 on: July 02, 2002, 04:14:48 PM »
I think except for nations whose residents or government are at war against the US, we should bring all of our troops home.  

We'll keep Mexico and Canada in line, and the rest of yall can take care of your neighbors.  Have fun.  I'm sure your court will have plenty of business.

Just don't start throwing nukes at each other because the hammer WILL come down.

Toodles.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2002, 04:20:02 PM by funkedup »
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