Author Topic: Wise words (Read 998 times)

Animal · « **Reply #45 on:** July 19, 2002, 05:16:18 PM »

I dont mind religious people as long as they stick to their values.

These are nice times, if you wanna believe in something, fine by you, you are blessed.

But if I dont want to, you dont have to feel like i'm trying to convince you that your beliefs are fake. Its usually the other way around.

Pongo · « **Reply #46 on:** July 19, 2002, 05:32:00 PM »

"Billy Graham's daughter, Anne Graham, was interviewed on the Early Show regarding the attacks on September 11, and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God have let something like this happen?"

"

Only zealots asked how god could let that happen.
Of coarse the zealot answer is that it happend because the zealots countrymen are not devout enough...

no..
there is no blame there Hortland.

Someone should have told little ms graham that this happend because some people take thier religion to seriosly. And live in countries that dont firmly seperate church and state.
That is the true answer.
I like the implication that the best thing to do about it is to adopt the fanatical religios attitude of our enemies

Hortlund · « **Reply #47 on:** July 19, 2002, 05:44:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
"Billy Graham's daughter, Anne Graham, was interviewed on the Early Show regarding the attacks on September 11, and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God have let something like this happen?"

"

Only zealots asked how god could let that happen.
Of coarse the zealot answer is that it happend because the zealots countrymen are not devout enough...

no..
there is no blame there Hortland.

Someone should have told little ms graham that this happend because some people take thier religion to seriosly. And live in countries that dont firmly seperate church and state.
That is the true answer.
I like the implication that the best thing to do about it is to adopt the fanatical religios attitude of our enemies

I think you are missing the point. This is not about 9-11. Cant you see that? This is about us as a society turning our backs on our Christian values, the very glue that holds our society together in the first place, and what that leads to.

Pongo, imagine a country where everyone follows the ten commandments. Good or bad? (The AMAZING part is that lots of liberal types will jump on that notion with the same ferocity as if I had suggested the reinstatement of slavery. )

Kieran · « **Reply #48 on:** July 19, 2002, 07:35:46 PM »

I am not on about religion in schools, only the trend in making religion offensive to society. And yes, a few in this thread have suggested religion is the root of evil in our society.

I work in a high school now (for the past two years). When I went to the same high school almost 25 years ago, we didn't need security cameras. It was completely unheard of for students to bring and use weapons. We didn't have to worry about kids wearing gang colors. When fights occured, teachers didn't have to worry about getting stabbed or shot when breaking them up...

...this is better? Just sayin', I am not of the same opinion. I have had too many altercations at my home and place of work to buy that line. Things are most certainly NOT better from my perspective.

fd ski · « **Reply #49 on:** July 19, 2002, 07:55:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hortlund
Pongo, imagine a country where everyone follows the ten commandments. Good or bad?

Imagine a country where everyone would have a choice to make their own decision which imaginary figure to believe in. What a concept !!!!

Show me a country on this planet, where 10% of it's "faithful" population lives truely by the teachings of their chosen religion. Come on.

Thrawn · « **Reply #50 on:** July 19, 2002, 08:26:25 PM »

Kieran, I'm pretty darn sure you know the logical flaws in your last post, which makes me wonder why you posted it.

Kieran · « **Reply #51 on:** July 19, 2002, 08:32:28 PM »

Well, the pattern in this thread seems to be to take a particular situation and paint it as the norm. My norm isn't better than the norm I enjoyed 10 years ago, or the one I enjoyed 25 years ago.

Did religion in school change in that time? Nope. But, the decline in religion in our society has been steady in the last 25 years. The argument for one side is this parallels an improvement for all; I am stating that isn't true from my perspective.

In reality both sides have arguments that are just as flawed. I would challenge anyone who says society is just hunky-dory now, or anyone that suggests there has been no decline in moral standards.

-tronski- · « **Reply #52 on:** July 19, 2002, 09:43:26 PM »

BRIAN: I'm not the Messiah!
ARTHUR: I say You are, Lord, and I should know. I've followed a few.
FOLLOWERS: Hail Messiah!
BRIAN: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand?! Honestly!
GIRL: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
BRIAN: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
FOLLOWERS: He is! He is the Messiah!
BRIAN: Now, diddly off!
ARTHUR: How shall we diddly off, O Lord?

Tronsky

Charon · « **Reply #53 on:** July 19, 2002, 11:39:53 PM »

Quote

Did religion in school change in that time? Nope. But, the decline in religion in our society has been steady in the last 25 years. The argument for one side is this parallels an improvement for all; I am stating that isn't true from my perspective. Kieran

Your perspective seems to be a bit off what's going on in American society. Statistically, we are a more religious society today than were were through most of the century. In fact, religious affiliation/identification has been on a steady increase since the 1920s, with a dip from the early 1960s to mid 1970s. We actually reached a peak in 1998 but membership is still holding pretty solid at about 70% compared to a mere 41% in 1906. But, if you really need to feel that religion is under attack, and on the decline, go ahead.

Quote

The official count of denominations increased from 186 in 1906 to 256 in 1936, when the Census Bureau stopped counting them. Although the number of denominations at the end of the century is not known, it included about eighty denominations with more than 60,000 members each. Seventy percent of the U.S. population belonged to a religious organization in 1998, up from 41 percent in the early years of the century.

At the end of the century, eight of every ten Americans were Christian, one adhered to another religion, and one had no religious preference. The nonChristians included Jews, Buddhists, and a rapidly growing number of Muslims.

The separation of church and state became more contentious in some respects after 1960, as federal and state courts were called upon to adjudicate a wide range of issues related to religion, from the use of peyote by American Indian cults to the display of Christmas decorations on government property. The 1980s and 1990s saw the active involvement of religious groups in political campaigns, along with the presidential candidacies of two Protestant ministers, Jesse Jackson and Pat Robertson.

http://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/6religion1.htm

Charon

Hortlund · « **Reply #54 on:** July 20, 2002, 04:16:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by fd ski

Imagine a country where everyone would have a choice to make their own decision which imaginary figure to believe in. What a concept !!!!

Show me a country on this planet, where 10% of it's "faithful" population lives truely by the teachings of their chosen religion. Come on.

Well, I'd say there are alot of countries where everyone gets to choose what to believe in. The US would be a good example of such a country.

As for your second question, the answer is very easy: There is none.

Hortlund · « **Reply #55 on:** July 20, 2002, 04:46:51 AM »

The original post's intention is not about blame, it is about reflection.

Me, being the stubborn bellybutton that I can be, managed to somehow get caught in the question whether the 1890:s or 1950:s were better than today. Which is completely irrelevant really, because no one wants to go back to 1950 or 1890.

Some people have brought up lots of various examples why the 1890-1950 period in time was bad. Those examples are amongst others, womens rights, McCarthy, racism, abusive fathers, world wars, nazis etc etc.

But all this is an irrelevant sidetrack, because the post really isnt about comparing periods in time, and besides, you cant blame any of those things on Christianity.

Midnight gives us his way of thinking when he says:
1. Things were better then - They weren't
2. Thing are worse now - They aren't
3. The reason is lack of religion - See 1 and 2

I think many things are much worse now. And I think many things were better then. But on the other hand, many things were worse then, and many things are better now. The things that are better now are mostly materialistic things. We have better toys, better hospitals, better medications, better ...stuff. But the things that are worse now are more in people's attitudes and behavior.

This world is a cold, cold place now. People are obsessed with their own economy, their own pleasures, themselves. They abuse others, they abuse the nature, they have no honor, no morals, somehow they have lost focus.

If you think that we are currently living in the best of worlds, then I suppose you should just sit back and enjoy yourself.

Personally I dont like the situation as it is now. But I am talking about the coldness in peoples hearts. As an example of this...We have kids killing eachother and raping eachother....kids. A couple of months ago we had a case where three 13-yr olds, and one 16-yrold had raped a 13-yrold girl. I mean wtf is that? Kids going to school killing as many as they can see before they put a bullet in the head is becoming more and more common... And this is just one example. There are counless of others.

If you dont think something is screwed with modern society, then I guess we see things completely differently.

The first step when dealing with any problem is always
1) acknowledge that there is a problem.
The post is about that. To get you to think.

Some people (like Thrawn and Animal) missed that point with about a mile.

Hortlund · « **Reply #56 on:** November 18, 2002, 05:58:43 AM »

PUUUNT

(Yeah, its good to be back)

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #57 on:** November 18, 2002, 07:01:59 AM »

The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born. - Mark Twain

lazs2 · « **Reply #58 on:** November 18, 2002, 08:18:46 AM »

I would like to see vouchers so that everyone can send their kid to the school that best represents what they believe in. I would say that the school has to meet some kind of scholastic minimums but then we would have to close down all the public schools.
lazs

Curval · « **Reply #59 on:** November 18, 2002, 08:47:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I would like to see vouchers so that everyone can send their kid to the school that best represents what they believe in. I would say that the school has to meet some kind of scholastic minimums but then we would have to close down all the public schools.
lazs

So your kids would attend "The Lazs School of Firearms"?