War on Drugs

[miko2d]

Originally posted by SC-Sp00k
Are you telling me the Malbouro man was really a French Pastry maker with a Tall hat and a fetish for leather tassled chaps?
 That Clint Eastwood as a Cowboy had a thick piece of dried Cow doo doo hanging out of his mouth that only smoked as a result of methane exudation?
 That Charlie Bronson was sucking burnt lollipop sticks to emulate Tele Savalas so as not to upset the the children while he blew the badguys away left and right and splattered whole neighbourhoods with badguy guts?

 An ignorant aussie shows his complete cluelessness of american life again.

 We are talking about current advertisment campaigns by tobacco companies. They would not spend billions on those if some ancient movied did the work for them.

 Things changed a lot here over the last twenty years. How many kids still see those old movies in a theater? None - old stuff is not shown there. Neither would they rent that crap on video.
 Do kids even know who James Dean was, do they care about Woodstook of 70s?

 The only place where kids  can see those old flicks is on TV - where they are shown prety often.
 Do you know that when such movies a shown on TV in America, they are severely edited? That the scenes of nudity, some foul language, blood, gore, splattered guts, bullets striking the bodies are removed? Obviously you do not now that.

 They may still show a hero shooting a gun with a cigarette forgotten in a corner of his mouth where nobody notices it, but that closeup shot where he slowly and demonstratively enjoyes a pull on a cigarette and then blows circles - that scene is gone!

 A though I was pretty explicit when I said "Unlike european TV, our TV almost never shows smoking on screen where kids can see it". Did I make any exception about Bronson, Eastwood and James Dean? No - because there is none.

 So get a clue. We are fighting smoking in thjis country and it is pretty successfull. Among educated people the rate is around 8%. The total rate is closing on 20%.

 Here is a little secret - with the recent tobacco settlement our governmnent is now interested in well-being of our tobacco companies. We never stopped subcidising tbacco growing. We never took those stocks from our retirement funds. We are perfectly fine with tobacco companies poisoning stupid clueless dolts - as long as they do it outside of this country.
 So the ads, the movies the brainwashing you see - it's not what we see here!

 miko

[SC-Sp00k]

Originally posted by miko2d
An ignorant aussie shows his complete cluelessness of american life again.

This has happened before? It was Mel wasnt it. I knew we should never have sent him over there. I told them it would only lead to trouble but Nooooo, they wouldnt listen!

Things changed a lot here over the last twenty years. How many kids still see those old movies in a theater? None - old stuff is not shown there. Neither would they rent that crap on video.
 Do kids even know who James Dean was, do they care about Woodstook of 70s?

A good 20 years ought to totally obliterate all knowledge of the past.  These new wave hippys and long hair wannabees must be immigrants. Aussie Immigrants i'll bet.
Thank god for Sony Playstations is all I can say. That'll keep them out of the movie theatres where the oldies congregate and where their young minds cant be corrupted by experimentation and peer group pressure.

The only place where kids  can see those old flicks is on TV - where they are shown prety often.
Do you know that when such movies a shown on TV in America, they are severely edited? That the scenes of nudity, some foul language, blood, gore, splattered guts, bullets striking the bodies are removed? Obviously you do not now that.

Obviously they sent us ignorant Aussies the wrong "Once we Soldiers, Blackhawk Down and Saving Private Ryan" Movies

They may still show a hero shooting a gun with a cigarette forgotten in a corner of his mouth where nobody notices it, but that closeup shot where he slowly and demonstratively enjoyes a pull on a cigarette and then blows circles - that scene is gone!

That must be how Beavis and Butthead cornered the market in it then eh? Now they keep them for the Cartoons

So get a clue.

Give me a vowel and 3 constantants instead. Im the ignorant one remember.
 
So the ads, the movies the brainwashing you see - it's not what we see here!

Well thats a relief. How did you get rid of all those annoying Info-mercials?

 miko [/B]

[Elfenwolf]

If you guys advocating the legalization of crank, coke, heroin, PCP, inhalants or whatever get your way then I'm moving to Montana and moving in next door to Ripsnort- and I'll but a few thousand rounds for my M-1 too.  

Sorry, but can someone tell me just one good thing that's been accomplished by a tweaker high on Meth? Or heroin? Look, I don't agree with the way we handle drug offenders as criminals rather than people who are ill either- but suddenly providing addicts with a cheap and plentiful supply of dope is as logical as providing drunks with free booze.

The arguement for legalization that we'll rid our prisons of non-violent drug offenders is weak. Nothing pisses me off more than someone who knows the risk they take yet cry foul when they get caught, and don't tell me about drug dealers being non-violent because I know better. You owe a dealer five grand or so for Coke he's fronted you and THEN see how non-violent your buddy is. Ya know, it sounds like some of you have never even seen a junkie by your description of drug abusers being normal middle class citizens. Sure, they might start out as normal middle class citizens but eventually the addiction overpowers them and the all too often wind up in the streets.

 I can't agree with the idea that legalizing drugs will make our drug abusers suddenly docile and non-violent. In fact I feel legalizing drugs will only generate more drug abusers than we already have and create larger welfare roles and a larger Government beaucracy to deal with them. Sorry, but I have to judge this issue by my own experiences and the opinions of people like Maverick who've spent a career sweeping these dregs off our streets.

[Kieran]

'zactly right, Elf.

[-dead-]

Sorry, but can someone tell me just one good thing that's been accomplished by a tweaker high on Meth? Or heroin?

How about the "Father of American Surgery," Dr. William Stewart-Halstead (1852-1922)?
Introduced antiseptic procedures, and became the first surgeon-in-chief at the Johns Hopkins Hospital.
He became addicted to cocaine after experimenting with it as an anesthetic in the 1880s, and then moved on to Morphine which he stayed on for the rest of his life. Not quite Heroin (TM) but close enough...

"In 1889 Halsted described the radical mastectomy to which he gave his name.  This involved resection of not only the entire breast, but also all the surrounding tissue and lymph nodes. This was in tune with the prevailing concept of the day that removal of the breast and all possible draining lymphatic tissue would provide a cure for breast cancer.  This remained the �gold standard� operation for much of the following century, and it is only relatively recently, over the past few decades, that it has become evident that such radical operations have not effected the hoped-for cure rate.  The picture of pathogenesis of breast cancer has emerged as a more complex issue and, along with current thinking, more conservative surgery has developed, leaving the radical mastectomy as indicated in only those cases of very locally advanced tumours.
Halsted�s far-reaching research interests then led him to develop many more surgical techniques and procedures.  In 1890 he developed an operation to cure hernias, previously regarded as unfortunate, but largely incurable.  Then in 1891 he went on to perform the first successful ligation of the subclavian artery and the first excision of a subclavian aneurysm.  In 1892 he was made professor of surgery at John Hopkins Hospital School of Medicine.  His interest in vascular surgery continued and in 1905 he devised methods of partial or complete occlusion of arteries by the use of metal bands, techniques that he was later able to use to cure an iliofemoral aneurysm by partial occlusion of the common iliac artery. Furthermore, he demonstrated autotransplantation of the parathyroid gland in dogs, and developed techniques for manipulation of the bile ducts and anastomosis of the GI tract. "
http://www.freevas.demon.co.uk/students/Halstead.htm

[Elfenwolf]

Dead, what's your point? Many people of that era became addicted to LEGAL Cocaine at the time. Or opium, or whatever. Basil Rathborne, for instance. So what's the lesson? That we began to realize just how addictive Cocaine is and we banned its use? We also banned the recreational use of Meth, Opium, PCP, LSD and Estacy, just to name a few. Or are you trying to make the point that the good Doctor was somehow inspired to greatness  through his drug addictions? Sorry, but I think he achieved greatness in spite of his drug addictions.

[Manedew]

most of you aginst drugs are totaly uneducated and think you know it all .. like a damn 16 year old  

I know I don't know crap .. when you gonna figure out you don't know anything ethir.

   Sc-Spook:   I've had 'pigs' throw my
rights out the window .. does this make me think all cops are bad? ... make me think that unless I make being a cop outlawd; or start jailing and killing enough of them that noone would want to be a cop?  No i don't think this way .. not all Cops are 'pigs'; not all drug user's are 'junkies'.  You deal with the trash junkies, it's your job and obviously what you seem to be baseing things  on ... I've been to Holland, seen the crapholes of Amesterdam .. reminded me of New Orleans(so i don't think amesterdams drugs made it any bit nastier than NO).  Where have you been that applies?

you don't know crap , I don't know crap...
but i guess you cop types always think you know best eh? have you even been to america/ or holland?

  Kieran:  Pot was outlawed in US after prohibtion .. if i have my facts right: 1930's-pot was put under tax.. to get tax stamp you had to show them the weed.. if you had the weed you haven't pay'd taxes on it .. 'under arrest'   i think in the 60's Tim Leary challenged this and won ... pot was made illegal shortly after.



words are generalizations ... if you don't understand this you'll use them very incorrectly


Elfen editing this so i don't have to post agin:... 'OVERDOSE'... handsomehunk, hope i don't have to say more.

bet it was from lack of h2o anyway unless it wasn't MDMA as many drugs are called "X","rolls",etc but are not always MDMA 'Molly'  





educate your handsomehunkes before you stand aginst something

[Elfenwolf]

Dead If you're making the point that people can function as drug addicts provided they have access to pure and plentiful drugs then I agree, depending on the drug. My reservations are that I don't wish my Government involved in the recreational drug disbursement business.

A 17 year old girl in the Sacramento area died of an Ecstacy overdose a couple of days ago. I wonder what the civil liability would have been had she acquired the drugs through a Government-sponsored drug disbursement program?

[AKSWulfe]

Aldous Huxley reached greatness on LSD, psylocybin(sp?) and peyote......
-SW

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf
A 17 year old girl in the Sacramento area died of an Ecstacy overdose a couple of days ago. I wonder what the civil liability would have been had she acquired the drugs through a Government-sponsored drug disbursement program?

Fact is Elfenwolf, with a government sponsored program- the facts would all be right there on the table about drug abuse and the potential for overdose and how to prevent someone from dying if they do OD.

I did the aforementioned drug for close to a year straight, and here I am talking to you... because I knew the limits.
-SW

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by AKSWulfe


Fact is Elfenwolf, with a government sponsored program- the facts would all be right there on the table about drug abuse and the potential for overdose and how to prevent someone from dying if they do OD.

-SW

SW So the problem was that we didn't educate the OTHER 17 year old kids she was tripping with in how to revive OD victims? I'm sure while stoned on Ecstacy the other users would know how to react- or maybe we could start a Government media blitz touting a "designated straight" person to administer first aid to any high friends who might OD.

SW, as much as your personal experiences have somehow convinced you that drugs are harmless respect the fact that my conclusions concerning drug abuse are also based upon personal experience. And for every example you can site of a functional drug abuser I can show you a hundred crack heads, meth or heroin addicts sitting on a curb somewherte, holding up a cardboard sign or begging for spare change.

[Kieran]

educate your handsomehunkes before you stand aginst something

Maybe you should have to educate the handsomehunkes that are stoned- I do.

Further, Man, marijuana never enjoyed the mainstream popularity in the U.S. that alcohol did in the thirties. Banning weed therefore did not have the effect it would have today.

Educate yourself. Your body is designed to run with the proper balance of chemicals, and is inborn for the most part with this balance and a mechanism for controlling it. Introducing changes to that balance for recreational purposes is foolish and harmful, period.

Alcohol as bad? Yup. But it is legal. And no, making even more harmful materials available to the public legally isn't the answer.

Listen, trying to convince someone that enjoys drugs they are bad for them is a total waste of time, I know that. It does not change the fact you are harming your body. It does not change the fact society is burdoned by those that abuse the drugs that can be had now. You are convinced you are enlightened and deep, fine.

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by Manedew
most of you aginst drugs are totaly uneducated and think you know it all .. like a damn 16 year old  

I know I don't know crap .. when you gonna figure out you don't know anything ethir.

   Sc-Spook:   I've had 'pigs' throw my
rights out the window .. does this make me think all cops are bad? ... make me think that unless I make being a cop outlawd; or start jailing and killing enough of them that noone would want to be a cop?  No i don't think this way .. not all Cops are 'pigs'; not all drug user's are 'junkies'.  You deal with the trash junkies, it's your job and obviously what you seem to be baseing things  on ... I've been to Holland, seen the crapholes of Amesterdam .. reminded me of New Orleans(so i don't think amesterdams drugs made it any bit nastier than NO).  Where have you been that applies?

you don't know crap , I don't know crap...
but i guess you cop types always think you know best eh? have you even been to america/ or holland?

  Kieran:  Pot was outlawed in US after prohibtion .. if i have my facts right: 1930's-pot was put under tax.. to get tax stamp you had to show them the weed.. if you had the weed you haven't pay'd taxes on it .. 'under arrest'   i think in the 60's Tim Leary challenged this and won ... pot was made illegal shortly after.



words are generalizations ... if you don't understand this you'll use them very incorrectly


Elfen editing this so i don't have to post agin:... 'OVERDOSE'... handsomehunk, hope i don't have to say more.

bet it was from lack of h2o anyway unless it wasn't MDMA as many drugs are called "X","rolls",etc but are not always MDMA 'Molly'  





educate your handsomehunkes before you stand aginst something

Manadew, do you know what you sound like? You sound like my daughter did when she was three years old. I had asked her what she wanted for lunch one time and she said "Ice cream." I very patiently explained to her how important it was to eat properly for good health, and how eating ice cream for a meal wasn't very healthy. I explained to her all about getting the proper vitamins and minerals and about how if all you ever ate was ice cream you didn't get any nutrition and you wouldn't grow up strong and healthy.

The whole time she was nodding her head, agreeing with the fact that eating ice cream for a meal might be harmful. I asked her if she understood. She responded "Yes, Daddy." I said "Good. Now what would you like for lunch?" "Ice cream," she responded.

[AKSWulfe]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf
SW So the problem was that we didn't educate the OTHER 17 year old kids she was tripping with in how to revive OD victims? I'm sure while stoned on Ecstacy the other users would know how to react- or maybe we could start a Government media blitz touting a "designated straight" person to administer first aid to any high friends who might OD.

What other 17 year old kids? The fact that the girl ODd is because she took too many pills. One is enough, she took too many. That's how you OD. And yes, chances are, that young girls life would of been saved if the people she was with knew what they were getting into. A couple glasses of water, put her in a tub and cover her in ice. That'll atleast keep her alive until an ambulance gets there. Signs to look for, no sweat, clamy skin, dry mouth, eyes bouncing all over the place, unable to keep a steady train of thought. This would of resulted in a saved life, not a death. Drugs are here, they are a HUGE black market business in the US. What makes more sense to you, telling kids not to do it... or telling them not to do it, but at the same time telling them how they can prevent their best friend from dying if they were to do it?

SW, as much as your personal experiences have somehow convinced you that drugs are harmless respect the fact that my conclusions concerning drug abuse are also based upon personal experience. And for every example you can site of a functional drug abuser I can show you a hundred crack heads, meth or heroin addicts sitting on a curb somewherte, holding up a cardboard sign or begging for spare change.

I never said they were harmless, you are simply pulling stuff out of your bellybutton because I said that there are ways to prevent people from dying on drugs. People have been keeping themselves from dying on drugs for hundreds of years. It isn't a recent epidemic, the fact is- you OD because you did too much.

You assume that every bum on the street is a crack head or some kind of drug abuser. That's where you just went down "dumb ass" street Elfenwolf. Guess what? Most of those bums are alcoholics, or mentally ill. Sure, quite a few of 'em were drug addicts- but not all of 'em.

Now, if you wanna argue with me because of my so-called drug experiences proving to me that if you tell someone a limit otherwise they die, they won't push that limit- fine. But these aren't simply based around my experiences.

The fact is, we live in society where talking about drugs is wrong. It's bad, naughty, immoral... whatever. Therefore kids don't know how much is too much. Yes, any is too much, but for toejam's sakes they are f'in kids and a lot of 'em will do it despite being told not to. Open up your eyes and f'in pay attention, the majority of druggies in this country are youngins!

So instead of telling them how much is too much, resulting in ODing and possibly death, and doing it how many times will result in an addiction- you just show 'em a commercial where someone is in a club, dancing, then the next thing you know- they're dead.

Wow, you are gonna reach someone with that commercial, err no.... It's better to educate someone than just say "they're bad and will kill you" and leave it at that.

Atleast then you'll have someone who ODed and will be able to live and tell about it at your anti-drug rallies.

So argue with me all you want, atleast I am doing something pro-active to prevent people from dying on drugs. And I won't stop doing that until drugs are COMPLETELY GONE FROM SOCIETY. It's time to face the music, drugs are here... lets focus on ways to prevent people from dying/becomming addicted to them.
-SW

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by AKSWulfe

What other 17 year old kids? The fact that the girl ODd is because she took too many pills. One is enough, she took too many. That's how you OD. And yes, chances are, that young girls life would of been saved if the people she was with knew what they were getting into.

No SW, that is generally not how you OD. 90% of all ODs are old drug users who have been off drugs for a while, and then take a dose of the size they used to take.

The most common one is the drug user who has spent some time in jail. Say he has been in there for 6 months and when he gets out, the first thing he wants to do is get a hit. So he finds his old friends, and they set him up with whatever substance he used to take. Problem is, when he was in prison, his body started to heal, and it is not prepared to recieve a hit the size it is about to get. Bam. OD.

Or the guy who spent a week doing drugs a couple of months ago. Back then he did amfetamine. He started with 0.2 per night back then, and it worked pretty good. He had to smoke some pot to be able to get to sleep around 7am each morning, but that was ok for him. After a week though, he needed 3 of those 0.2 hits to get the high he wanted. Now its been a couple of months, but he figures he needs 3 x 0.2, so why not take it all in one swoop. Bam. OD.


And that girl would be alive now had she decided to just say no. But because of people like you, people who claim drugs are harmless or people who claim that alcohol is much more dangerous..because of people like you, people like her will just keep on trying, some will die, some will become drug addicts, some might walk away from it.