Author Topic: Please, perk the Dora (Read 1003 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 30, 2002, 07:54:21 AM »

we need an area in the arena for early war planes only where they won't be forced to fight late war monsters... let the monsters have each other.

seen many P40's or F4f's in the arena lately? bet the new stuka will get used about as much... How bout those 202's and spit ones?
lazs

MrLars · « **Reply #46 on:** October 30, 2002, 01:55:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Urchin

Good pilots in the La-7 are few and far between, because if they chose to fly it there wouldn't be much of challenge in the game.

Bullseye!

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #47 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:14:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
You can't take statistics like Leviathn's godlike 40-7 score against the La-7 as if they were all 1on1. A La-7 will own a Spit V in a 1on1. Two Spit V's vs. one La-7 is another matter entirely.

On the contrary, I'd say that a majority of my kills on La-7s have come from 1v1 or worse odds. It's easy to force La-7s to overshoot when they're barrelling in fast, allowing for snapshot kills. In addition, it's insanely easy to sucker most La-7s into sooner or later committing to a turnfight against a Spit once they think they can obtain the kill quickly by doing so. That's when you reel them in and make them pay.

The Spit V's strength against the La-7 is frustration. While the Spit V rarely dictates the terms of the fights 1v1, it can also continuously frustrate the La-7 until he either runs or makes a mistake. About the only time I've died to La-7s this tour (or just about any other) has been while otherwise engaged and outnumbered by other enemies in the area.

Perk the La-7? I'd rather not, as I enjoy fighting them.

-- Todd/Leviathn

jonnyb · « **Reply #48 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:58:02 PM »

I completely agree, Todd. If you know how to exploit your plane's strengths and the other's weaknesses, you'll win. On equal footing, an La7 vs. an La7, it is absolutely about who is the smarter pilot. Fly a spitV vs. an La7 and it is the smarter pilot that wins again. As was said earlier, you throw a novice in a 1945 uber-plane and an expert in a 1940 slug, and I'd put money on the guy in the early-war bird.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #49 on:** October 30, 2002, 04:43:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz

The La-7 is a favorite with the novice pilots because of its survivability. That you get more of them than they of you only complement your skill ~~. Face an average pilot like me (I don't presume to be more) in a La-7 1-on-1 in your P38 and I can (almost) guarantee I will ruin your day.~~

Next time you're up in the MA same times as me, lets go to the DA. Would be fun to find out.

Ack-Ack

Soda · « **Reply #50 on:** October 30, 2002, 06:38:05 PM »

The La7 might be a popular plane, but not more so than several others, like the Pony, N1K and Spit IX. If it were so great, wouldn't it finish #1 overall in popularity, or K/D vs fighters? Best it's finished in popularity is 3rd in the last 4 tours, most times it's 4th. The La7 also really doesn't stand out in the stats when you look at K:D vs fighters (thanks to AKDejaVu for all the numbers). It averages about 15-16th overall in any of the last 4 or so tours in K:D, consistently beat out by the 190A8, Ki61, N1K. The plane is good, but it's not very overwhelming it would seem.

The La7 is simply not a balanced aircraft. It's 8 parts defensive speed, and 2 parts offense. Avoiding deaths to La7's isn't that hard, but catching one in order to shoot it down can be. The La7's worst fear is a diving N1K or Spit, force it to turn and slow, then it's easy meat.

-Soda
The Assassins.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #51 on:** October 30, 2002, 07:35:05 PM »

We are talking about D9 and La7, not about uberantigravitational ufos armed with hispanos.

uh, and a secret, D9s dominate and will dominate La7s while most La7 pilots are newbies.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #52 on:** October 30, 2002, 08:04:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
We are talking about D9 and La7, not about uberantigravitational ufos armed with hispanos.

[/B]

Oh, then surely you're also suggesting that we perk the Spit V, right?

ROFL

-- Todd/Leviathn

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #53 on:** October 30, 2002, 09:58:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
we need an area in the arena for early war planes only where they won't be forced to fight late war monsters... let the monsters have each other.

Yes! or something to allow the early war planes a fleeting chance.

The early war planes are hopelessly outclassed in the MA with the current setup. There is no even balance or something to make them viable.
-SW

palef · « **Reply #54 on:** October 30, 2002, 10:43:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe

Yes! or something to allow the early war planes a fleeting chance.

The early war planes are hopelessly outclassed in the MA with the current setup. There is no even balance or something to make them viable.
-SW

Tactics play a big part in the perception that early war planes are outclassed. If you try to fly them like the "monsters" you will die.

I find that at mid-low MA alts (7k down to 1k) most of the early plane set will have more than a passing chance of "dominating" (why does that word keep turning up in this thread?) a "monster", particularly if you can judge the E state of your opponent with reasonable accuracy.

I am by no means the best proponent of early war aircraft management, but I can do slightly better than stay even if I keep my brain engaged (and I'm not even that bright):
"palef has 7 kills and has been killed 4 times in the P-40B.
palef has 27 kills and has been killed 19 times in the C.202.
palef has 13 kills and has been killed 14 times in the Hurricane IID. (One of those kills was a 190D9)
palef has 24 kills and has been killed 14 times in the Hurricane IIC. (Arguably an early war aircraft with a "monster" armament)."
(These stats are from the current tour)

Widewing attests mightily to the fact that reasonable tactics can lend a great deal of success. He also shows what extensive practice of those tactics can achieve (I hate bloody SBDs now - Widewing).
(edit here - left this out) "widewing has 106 kills and has been killed 27 times in the SBD-5."

It is really easy to get sucked into the "OOOOOO Look a plane!! Kill it!!!!" when in desparate straights when a bit of thought might help you set up a way out or a kill.

It is definitely harder to "succeed" in an early war aircraft, but it is by no means impossible. and infinitely more rewarding than saddling up a Niki, LA7, or Spit IX.

I don't perceive the 190-D9 as unbalancing the MA to great extent. I've also found that as my experience mounts it is becoming easier to counter the Spit Hordes, Nikis, and LA7s. I wasn't around for the pre-Chog perk days, but buy all anecdotal acoounts it was responsible for more than 20% of all kills before it was perked. Surely the D9 is nowhere near this figure as it requires quite some skill (like most 190s) to get the best out of it.
"The Fw 190D-9 has 15207 kills and has been killed 8456 times."
"All planes have 498617 kills and have been killed 498617 times."

3.05% of all kills and 1.70% of all deaths for the 190D-9 doesn't really indicate a dominant aircraft in my book.

regards

palef

PS Geez what a rant - sorry

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #55 on:** October 30, 2002, 11:21:13 PM »

Tour 30 (last time I flew F4F-4):
AKSWulfe has 12 kills and has been killed 2 times in the F4F-4.

The problem is not that I have problems dealing with late war monsters, my problem is that I HAVE to deal with them.
-SW

lazs2 · « **Reply #56 on:** October 31, 2002, 07:56:20 AM »

tactics? sure... if everything cpomes together you can enjoy a few sorties in an early war plane if.... you are way above average in skill level and have a little luck and.....

To fly a late war plane in any situation is no problem.. you have the best possible chance and your opponent in the early war plane is at the disadvantage before the fight even starts.

no... I think we need a place for the early war planes to have a little parity. the late war guys have their parity allready.
lazs

Gremlin · « **Reply #57 on:** October 31, 2002, 08:08:28 AM »

Few nights back I'm flying a tempest, i'm not that high bout 6k ish. I spot a lone LA7 on the deck twisting and turning with a squaddie. As I dive in i see the la7 kill my squaddie and start to run. I am catching him for a while, then he starts to get away. I think I'm risking 70 points just so la7's can engage in a low speed turn fight and then accelerate so fast that they can escape me??

He can out run me, out-turn me, he's smaller than me and a lot harder to hit. If the LA7 aint perked then I dont see why the tempest should, or for that matter the F4U4.

Turbot · « **Reply #58 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:00:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe

Yes! or something to allow the early war planes a fleeting chance.

The early war planes are hopelessly outclassed in the MA with the current setup. There is no even balance or something to make them viable.
-SW

some early war planes are quite good, but require alot more patience. 109f is one of my favorites. Though it is pretty slow, I feel pretty comfortable engaging just about anything in it.

turbot has 66 kills and has been killed 21 times in the Bf 109F-4.

turbot has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109F-4 against the Spitfire Mk XIV.

(I didn't even ahve any cannon left - took forever but finally I downed him)

and back on topic sorta:

turbot has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Bf 109F-4 against the La-7.

Heck and these just my silly numbers - plenty out there with alot better.

gofaster · « **Reply #59 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:31:32 AM »

Early war planes do quite well in the Combat Theatre. I learned more about ACM flying P-40s and Kis there than I did flying Spitfires and Mustangs in the MA.

If you want to perk a plane, perk the Mustang and Typhoon. Those things account for more airfield destruction than any other plane. You'd see a lot fewer suicide Tiffie runs, I'll bet. At least defenders have a chance to run down a heavy P-47, F6F, Corsair, or P-38, but the P-51 and Typhoon are unstoppable once they begin their attack runs.